Powder is not burning??

[masterhunter]

So I went out last weekend to confirm my zero and snapped a few primers after wiping the bore dry. Poured my load in and put the primer in and the primer ignited but the load didn't so tried again and again with more primers but never did ignite the powder. So thought that the breach plug had a problem. Last night and today I have removed and cleaned the breech plug and replaced the Randy Wakeman's vent liner with a new one and still have not been able to get powder to ignite I also used a brand new box of Winchester Federal 209s (had been using Federal 209s.

By the way I have read the TIPS section on cleaning the Breech plug. Seems like the hole in the vent liner is way to small. What say you?

[Al]

what powder?

[mike3132]

Are the primers firing? Load data too please. Mike

[youp50]

A SAFETY NOTE!

If you have a primer discharge and not ignite the powder. Before you try another primer, reseat the bullet/ sabot to your witness mark! The primer very likely moved the bullet and powder ignition on the second, third or fourth try could have had some rather catastrophic results.

[tdillinger]

Oct 23, 2010 14:34:54 GMT -5 youp50 said:

A SAFETY NOTE!

If you have a primer discharge and not ignite the powder. Before you try another primer, reseat the bullet/ sabot to your witness mark! The primer very likely moved the bullet and powder ignition on the second, third or fourth try could have had some rather catastrophic results.

I woud not have thought of that but i believe you correct.

[masterhunter]

Guys right now I'm just putting the powder down the barrel and then making sure it gets to the bottom of the barrel putting a primer on and pulling the trigger with barrel pointed in the up position. The primer goes off and then I turn the barrel to the ground and unburnt powder comes out the barrel.. Like I said I used pyrodex and then tried IMR4198. Not putting a sabot or bullet on the powder just trying to make sure it will burn-doing this in my garage.

[deadon]

Oct 23, 2010 14:53:46 GMT -5 masterhunter said:

Guys right now I'm just putting the powder down the barrel and then making sure it gets to the bottom of the barrel putting a primer on and pulling the trigger with barrel pointed in the up position. The primer goes off and then I turn the barrel to the ground and unburnt powder comes out the barrel.. Like I said I used pyrodex and then tried IMR4198. Not putting a sabot or bullet on the powder just trying to make sure it will burn-doing this in my garage.

Smokeless powder needs pressure to go boom. We used to load a barrel full of BP and shoot it off New yrs eve and the sky would light up. Not so with smokeless. Smokeless powder in a 270 case for example is under pressure of the sealed case when you pull the trigger. you need a bullet , snugly pushed down the barrel on top of smokeless powder to get it to ignite. smokeless powder burns, it does not explode unless it is under pressure. AND BACK OFF THE POWDER CHARGE WHEN YOU DO, TO SAY 54 GRS OF h 4198. Hope this helps, Rusty

[masterhunter]

Tried it 3 more times fresh powder (68.5 gr. of IMR 4198 with sabot seated firmly. It moves the sabot about 2 ft. down the barrel when primer goes off. So reseated each time and same thing.

[masterhunter]

Well guess that it is working now. Put pyrodex without sabot down barrel and fired and fire shot out barrel just no boom. Gonna head for the range tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks guys.

[tdillinger]

Sabot is not going to be enough pressure to ignite the powder. Why dont you go to the range?

[tdillinger]

And make sure the bolt is closed all the way.

[dans]

Smokeless won't work without a bullet and sabot pressed down on the powder. If you are tryng to ignite smokeless powder only it won't ignite.

[masterhunter]

I thought that it would be as loud as a firecracker with the pyrodex with no bullet seated on it but it was just a cap and fire. ? Any thoughts?

[Al]

what Dans said, need to fire it with sabot and bullet.

[youp50]

I thought that it would be as loud as a firecracker with the pyrodex with no bullet seated on it but it was just a cap and fire. ? Any thoughts?


Now practically, clean all the un-burnt powder from your gun. Re-read the parts that say you need pressure to get smokeless powder to go bang. This pressure is caused by the mass of the sabot/bullet and the friction of the sabot to barrel fit. No pressure, no bang, ever, not in the garage, not at the range, not in the woods, not ever. Be content with the results of your experiment, you have proven this to yourself.


Smokeless powder is also called progressive powder. It burns, it does not explode. The higher the pressure the faster the burn. To the point where you may think it is exploding as in a cartridge or shot shell. It is not exploding, this is a very important point with the folks at the BATFE. It is classed as a propellant, not an explosive.

Black powder is a different beast. It does explode. The folks at the BATFE consider it an explosive. The higher the pressure the slower the explosion. Indeed, quite the opposite of progressive powders. That is why black powder limits the velocity of the payload.

You can put a pile of progressive propellant on the street and ignite it with a match. It will burn, high flames, and it may have a few bits of powder jump about as it burns. That is it.

If you would be inclined to try that with black powder you would have a difficult time hearing for some time. That is the minimum amount of damage you would do to your body. If you would make the pile big enough you could "Blow yourself to Kingdom come"! I think there are probably better ways to commit suicide that this, so please DO NOT try this with black powder.


H4198 is finicky about pressure. You can have a light for caliber bullet ( read 250 gr in a .50 cal) and a loose fitting sabot and it may not go bang. A tight fitting sabot and a 300 gr bullet it will reliably go bang.

IME you may have some bang problems in COLD weather, like 20 below Fahrenheit. Do not worry about that yet. You have other things to concern yourself with for now.

[whyohe]

if i remember correct pyrodex has a side you MUST put down first. if you look at the pellet there is an end that is darker than the other. that end must be twards the primer. if you are using loose, the powder is dispersing so much with outany thing hoding it its not burning properly. also every one here is correct about smokless you MUST have sabot and bullet pressure to get it to ignight.