Knight Super Disc 45 cal.

[smokepole50]

Does anyone have one of these rifles? If so, have you upgraded to the Lehigh breech plug? My cousin has one of these rifles collecting dust because it has cost him several nice bucks in the past by having misfires in the using 777 or Pyrodex. I told him BH209 might fix this problem but he now has a Encore that shoots clover leafs so he is not that interested in my ideas at present. Just though I would try and find out if anyone here had a similar problem that was solved by the Lehigh BP.

Smokepole

[GMB54-120]

Ive used the Lehigh NFPJ conversion in an Elite 45, Extreme 50 and my GMB54 with VERY good results. Breach is nearly spotless with any tight primer and even WinT7 primers have ignited Bh209 without a single hang fire in all 3.

Ive had this best luck actually with plain Win209s or WinT7s on groups too. No need for mag primers unless they fit yours well. Slight variations on the Knights "headspace" will decide which primer is the cleanest in yours but so far all of mine are awesome with Win209s.

When you have no blowby that fire is going where it belongs.

BTW those 1-20 twist Super DISCs are supposed to be one of the best Lehigh 40-200gr shooters.

[mountainam]

Smoke, When you list T7 and Pyrodex, are you talking pellets or loose? I can't imagine a 209 not setting off FFFG T7 loose but I can on the pellets. Same as Pyrodex. If you can't set off T7 loose with a 209 then you'll have a more difficult time setting off BH209. I shoot a converted Remington that will set off loose T7 with a small rifle primer. Have your cousin disassemble his bolt to check for excessive crud and blow back in the bolt body itself. Good Luck!

[smokepole50]

I am pretty sure my cousin used pellets and I know he also used Power Belts because everything else according to him was to tight to load. My feelings are that he had a crud ring issue from poor burning 777 pellets or even worse Pyrodex pellets. Combine this with Power belts that could be pushed off of the pellets by the primer impulse and you have ignition issues. He lost several nice bucks because the cap was all that went off. The rifle was very inconsistant from the start. He claims the rifle has very deep rifling. I have not seen it lately to know if this is a issue concerning the bullet sabot choice but I am sure the proper BCR sabot and a good bullet would solve that problem.

Smokepole

[sabotloader]

smokepole50

Grouse has a 45 Super DISC that he has installed the Lehigh Conversion in. He has shot it with the conversion very successfully and very clean I might add.

He does shoot BH in his guns - he hates running a damp patch after shooting so.... For myself I shoot T7 and do not mind the process of running a patch after shooting at the range. Hunting, I can load 4-5 shots before really needing to run the patch in most of my guns. In a couple of them no patching is necessary at all.

I am not sure of the reasons for your problems in the Super DISC but I am also sure if you worked with it you can get it working just fine.

[mike.dawson]

I also have the Knight Super disc, converted to the gen II Lehigh BP. It shoots really, really well. Loves BH 209 and Fed 209a primers, clean in the receiver, very little leakage to none. no grease on the BP teflon tape and never seize on the vent liner

Mike

[smokepole50]

In looking at my cousins Super disc .45 rifle yesterday I have a couple questions. First off for the means to properly identify his rifle, he uses a light orange plastic primer holder with a little tab on it that allows it to fit in the rifle in only one way. The gap between the end of the bolt and the BP face is maybe 1/2" when the bolt is open.

In looking at the bolt design it would seem difficult at best to "drop in" that SS primer holder or am I missing something.
Do you pull the bolt out and modify it with the new primer holding end piece? If so, how do you get the primer in and out of the primer holder each time you fire the rifle?? The bolt opening is so small I would think some kind of tool would be needed, like maybe a small pair of needle nose pliers to remove and replace a used primer.

Thanks, Smokepole

[GMB54-120]

smokepole50

A Super DISC used the orange FPJs if i remember correctly. The Lehigh conversion is for the RED FPJ bolt. Basically all you need is a bolt from a newer DISC Extreme to make the conversion fit into the bolt.

Due to differences in tolerance, there is a slight chance it may not just drop in and work. The Adapter replaces the FPJ and stays in the bolt until you remove the bolt.

IMO, i find it easier to use than the Savage primer holder and fired primers just fall out of all of mine. Also IMO its the cleanest ML 209 primer system i have ever seen.

I shot these bullets with a max load of 120gr and even with 385gr (far right bullet) bullets in my GMB54-120.


The GMB54 is also one of the gun listed that the conversion may not work on but it fit mine perfect and even WinT7s can ignite BH209 just fine. If they can ignite BH209 every time, im 100% sure they will ignite T7 with ease.

[smokepole50]

Thanks GMB

I am not sure he will want to go to the expense of buying another bolt that may or may not work without modification so the Lehigh BP will work. I will probably end up just installing a Savage style vent liner in his BP for him.

I read in another forum thread that Knight was developing a rifle with a bolt design that held the bare primer and closed on a BP that looked much like the Lehigh design. Does anyone know if this bolt design is being carried forward with the new owners??? Is there any chance this new bolt design would work with the older Super Disc rifles??? It seems this Super Disc is a bit of a RED HEAD STEP CHILD at present, at least using 777, BH209 may be it's salvation. I hope the new owners of Knight offer solutions for these issues caused by the old owners designs. These rifle's were not cheap and it would be a shame to waste such a good shooting barrel by letting it collect dust because it is only good for one shot per BP cleaning.

Smokepole50

[GMB54-120]

smokepole50

If he wants to sell it please let me know. Its one of the few Knights i dont have in my collection. Im only interested in stainless though.

I may even consider trading my Accura 45cal SS TH Camo with very BH209 friendly breach plugs.

The bolts are not that hard to find and the only work needed is light sanding on the bolt face to make them fit.

I have talked to my friends at Knight and the only thing i can say is, im pretty sure 99% of the people that enjoy Knights will love the new NFPJ models. I promised to keep my mouth shut but i can say with a good confidence the Knight NFPJ issues have been solved and are even better than the Extreme Ultimate Slam prototype.

[grouse]

The Lehigh conversion will work in this gun. The problem is the cost of all the parts you need. You would need the red plastic jacket bolt, then the Lehigh conversion. I would sale the gun to GM54, and buy an Elite or wait for the new Knights to come out.

[smokepole50]

Thanks Grouse.

What about installing a Lehigh vent liner in the Knight breech plug??? Maybe this would help with ignition. I think most of my cousins ignition issues were caused by the crud that is left behind with Pyrodex and 777. BH209 and a vent liner will probably do the job just fine.

On behalf of my cousin I'll say thanks for the offer GMB54 but I don't think he would let it go cheap if he did sell it. I'll tell him you have a .45 CVA but with the way my .50 Accura is shooting so inconsistantly I doubt he will be getting a CVA any time soon, Bergara barrel or not. I still have not got that rifle shooting as good as they say they will. I am very disappointed with it thus far.

Smokepole

[GMB54-120]

Before trying a .032 or .033 vent liner, just drill it out to .034 or .035 and clean out the flash channel really well with a bit or gas port brush.

My LK with a FPJ has a large .037 hole and ignites BH209 extremely well with a CCI209M primer. The original DISC based FPJs might have a much smaller flash hole.

[grouse]

Oct 25, 2010 21:24:37 GMT -5 smokepole50 said:

Thanks Grouse.

What about installing a Lehigh vent liner in the Knight breech plug??? Maybe this would help with ignition. I think most of my cousins ignition issues were caused by the crud that is left behind with Pyrodex and 777. BH209 and a vent liner will probably do the job just fine.

On behalf of my cousin I'll say thanks for the offer GMB54 but I don't think he would let it go cheap if he did sell it. I'll tell him you have a .45 CVA but with the way my .50 Accura is shooting so inconsistantly I doubt he will be getting a CVA any time soon, Bergara barrel or not. I still have not got that rifle shooting as good as they say they will. I am very disappointed with it thus far.

Smokepole

Alot of people are drilling out and installing vent-liners. To me, that to some degree will weaken the metal. Not sure if that is a good idea or not? I would much rather have the Lehigh conversion which is way better material.

[GMB54-120]

Alot of people are drilling out and installing vent-liners.

I would have to agree to some degree. Im not sure what size flash hole the old orange FPJ breach plug uses. If its close to the same size as a PR or Lehigh vent liner, i dont see it helping much if any.

The real improvement by adding the vent liner also comes from opening up the flash "channel' also. Combined with the vent liner IMO its a good conversion in the CVA plugs ive tried.

Now i have no idea how much metal is available to work with on an original DISC but on the red FPJ plug, you cant open up the channel very much near the FPJ section. You still have a restriction and need to remove the liner to clean it completely.

The Lehigh plugs are by far the best quality i have ever seen and have a good amount of channel volume and vent liners work great with them. The craftsmanship, metal quality and polished finish are second to none.

[mike.dawson]

You would have to purchase the bolt conversion kit from Gun Broker or Knight; 89.00 or there abouts. Then purchase the Lehigh conversion he u all this will set you back around 125.00 , that is what I did, I found the Knight conversion on Gun Broker for 55.00 then purchased the Lehigh conversion kit. This 45 shoot really, really good with any 45 I throw down the barrel and 80 gr. weighed BH209
Mike

[smokepole50]

I am trying to convince my cousin to do this. Maybe I should just offer him $300 and make it shoot for myself. I need a .45......Sometimes he can be a real stick in the mud. I told him I would try and install a vent liner in the original BP for him. He thinks the rifle seals well enough with the orange primer holders as is. I am guessing that is because his flash hole and flash channel is obstructed with powder fouling. If he tried to push the upper limits of velocity with BH209 and a larger flash channel/vent liner combo that will give him reliable ignition I wonder if that orange primer holder will be reusable then in a semi melted condition. I doubt it.

Smokepole

[Deleted]

Get a #65 drill bit and open up the flash hole to blackhorns recommend .035" flash hole. I like to use a good strong CCI 209M primer, especially in the Cold.

[k]

i have a super-disc and the original breech plug on mine is called a crossfire,the flashhole already measures .035 and has a 13/64" flash hole(to large for a ventliner)and shoots T7 and BH209 just fine as it is.i suspect your cousins problems were from the powder becoming contaminated.when i started hunting with a ML i also shot pellets and powerbelts loaded in a clean/dry barrel and would also have hangfires and failure to fire problems if left loaded more than one day in our usually humid hunting season.at that time i never taped the muzzle and i suspect moisture got to the powder past those loose fitting powerbelts..........karl

[smokepole50]

K..........

I am pretty sure you just nailed it, He also has the crossfire type of breech plug face and had the same issues. I told him back then that the power belt skirts did not have enough sealing surface. His response was and still is that he can't get other bullets to fit down the barrel or shoot well. I will give him this, he did try all kinds of sabot/bullet combinations that were avaliable then but they were limited for the .45 several years ago.

My guess is that this issue of barrel temperature and its affects on sabot plastic integrity regardless if it is a PB skirt or a full sabot is a greater issue then many would think possible. I remember thinking when I had a side mounted scope on my T/C Hawken w/ GM Long Range Hunter barrel that it must be the flash from the nipple affecting the scope. If I let the gun cool for 10 minutes or so it could shoot clover leafs. This thought was reinforced when I had the same type of issue with my T/C Black Diamond, once again believing that the flash from the slam fire ignition and vented 209 ingintion was causing the scope to get heated because it got burnnt just like my Hawken scope. It was not until I bought a closed breech ML and came to this site that I realized that the sabot is the WHOLE issue. I never would have thought that a small ammount of barrel warmth could affect the sabot and accuracy the way it seems to.

Smokepole50

[k]

i would bet that harvester smooth blue 45/40 sabots will fit that gun great.i have upgraded to an extreme bolt and lehigh plug and it is now 99% blowback free.good luck.......karl

[sqezer]

Is the Knight Super Disc for saleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.