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Post by tdillinger on Oct 9, 2010 15:59:29 GMT -5
Why why why is the hazmat so expensive. Smokeless powder does not explode, it burns!  |
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Post by chuck41 on Oct 9, 2010 16:13:47 GMT -5
Why do they not charge hazmat for ping-pong balls or photographic film. They are the same chemical compound as single based smokeless powder. (Try lighting a ping pong ball. Really fun)
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Post by Jon on Oct 9, 2010 21:27:06 GMT -5
Chuck don't give them any ideas.
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Post by craigf on Oct 9, 2010 21:42:16 GMT -5
(Try lighting a ping pong ball. Really fun) But how do you get it down your barrel?  |
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Post by rossman40 on Oct 9, 2010 23:16:31 GMT -5
The main reason is the paperwork that goes with the shipment which most of the time the person receiving the shipment never sees. From the shipper a qualified person (the carrier can do this for the shipper) has to certify the hazard classification, procedures in case of emergency and that the packaging conforms to D.O.T. regs. You even have to use the proper definitions. The carrier (say UPS, ABF, Fedex) is supposed to verify the data and as it transports the material a copy of the hazmat documents accompany the shipment. For example a truck driver would be given a packet containing all the hazmat data for any shipment that is contained in the trailer so that in case of a accident or fire he can give the packet to say the fire department so they can take proper actions. For example you do not fight a trailer fire when it contains 500lb bombs or if the shipment contains like calcium carbide you do not use water. If the DOT catches a shipment and you do not have the paperwork or even the proper worded paperwork, $10,000 fine. Also just because you do not see the diamond placards on a trailer doesn't necessarily mean there is no hazmat on that trailer.
A lot of the hassle stems from a accident back in the 70s IIRC that happened in PA. It involved a tanker truck hauling some weird&nasty stuff that even though it had a placard was just some chemical to the state police. The two state policemen investigating the accident stepped in a small spill during the clean-up of the accident. It was winter time so when they got back into their cars they fired up the heaters and the chemical on their shoes, when exposed to the heat, let off fumes that killed one of the officers and almost killed the other one.
Most first responders carry a book that lists most hazmat by the 4 digit code you see on the placard and name so proper safety precautions, fire fighting techniques and even proper medical procedures (like if someone was taken to the ER soaked in weird&nasty) to protect the first responder and the victim can be used.
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Post by zakjak221 on Oct 10, 2010 12:30:03 GMT -5
Just call them "Hosemat" Fees!! ;D
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Post by bteague on Oct 10, 2010 15:25:03 GMT -5
Zakjak221,If you have a hundred people order powder.Thats alot of paperwork.And the people that do the paper work have to be paid.The forms have to be paid for.So no is being hosed it's just a fact of life.
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Post by boarhog on Oct 10, 2010 16:08:40 GMT -5
Unless you try to order two different brands of powder from Midway. Then they inform you there will be 2 hazmat fees! Come to find out, they aren't stocking the powder, just having it dropshipped from the mfg.
BH
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Post by zakjak221 on Oct 10, 2010 18:21:28 GMT -5
bteague,
I work for the Railroad, and you should see the Hazmat paperwork involved! Smaller city phone book.
Sure it has to be done, but when the Fed.'s get involved you get overkill up to your earlobes.
With that overkill comes a price tag.
They CANNOT simplify or condense.
Mark
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Post by tdillinger on Oct 10, 2010 18:46:08 GMT -5
Unless you try to order two different brands of powder from Midway. Then they inform you there will be 2 hazmat fees! Come to find out, they aren't stocking the powder, just having it dropshipped from the mfg. BH I was told by cabelas that one can order up to If i remember correctly 48 lbs of powder for each Hazmat order. I was trying to get sr4759 from midway and they only had the 1lb and 8lb. Cabelas had the 1lb and 4lb. The 4lb was the same price per pound as the 8. But to order one pound of powder it was $22 or there about for the powder, the hazmat is $25. When i recieve powder it comes in the same cardboard box with the same packing around it as any other package. there is nothing special about it or packaged any differntly from what i can see. What I see is the Fed sticking there hands in my pocket. Im all about safety, and I can appreciate having to cover overhead. but the numbers to me do not make sense nor the Hazmat law. Why is it there the same cost to ship 48 lbs vs 1 lb for Hazmat?  |
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Post by rossman40 on Oct 10, 2010 22:06:30 GMT -5
You also have the DOT rules and to make sure their rears are covered carriers like UPS, Fedex and even the USPS has thier own stricter rules. You have heard of direct deposit, the DOT has direct withdrawl when it comes to fines for hazmat shipments. They can come in and audit you a year afterwards and if they find a mistake in the paperwork or a typo that is still $10,000.
The hazmat paper work is by shipment not by item, the fee should be the same for 1 pound or 32,000 lbs. Now if your order is different powders and they ship from two locations you have one order but two shipments so two sets of paperwork. Now the shipper can have a charge per item to cover looking up the regs for each item and certifiying each. The paperwork consist of a cover sheet that is usually red or with red stripes (for US ground shipments) that list the hazmat or "dangerous goods" items in the shipment, the UN number, hazard classification, packaging classification, number and wieght of packages/containers. There is also on there for the person who signs off on the shipment and certifies that it is the truth. Now to cover his rear he may attach references where he got the data and may include the MSDS data sheets. It is nothing to see a 3cu/ft carton having a mannila envelope over a inch thick.
Now most shippers are on the ball and everything is computerized. As soon as they type in your order the computer sees whats on your invoice and automaticly generates the hazmat paperwork. The fee doesn't always go to the shipper. With UPS their hazmat fee is $25 for ground and $35 for air or 3-day. Fedex is $22.50.
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Post by tdillinger on Oct 10, 2010 22:22:53 GMT -5
You also have the DOT rules and to make sure their rears are covered carriers like UPS, Fedex and even the USPS has thier own stricter rules. You have heard of direct deposit, the DOT has direct withdrawl when it comes to fines for hazmat shipments. They can come in and audit you a year afterwards and if they find a mistake in the paperwork or a typo that is still $10,000. The hazmat paper work is by shipment not by item, the fee should be the same for 1 pound or 32,000 lbs. Now if your order is different powders and they ship from two locations you have one order but two shipments so two sets of paperwork. Now the shipper can have a charge per item to cover looking up the regs for each item and certifiying each. The paperwork consist of a cover sheet that is usually red or with red stripes (for US ground shipments) that list the hazmat or "dangerous goods" items in the shipment, the UN number, hazard classification, packaging classification, number and wieght of packages/containers. There is also on there for the person who signs off on the shipment and certifies that it is the truth. Now to cover his rear he may attach references where he got the data and may include the MSDS data sheets. It is nothing to see a 3cu/ft carton having a mannila envelope over a inch thick. Now most shippers are on the ball and everything is computerized. As soon as they type in your order the computer sees whats on your invoice and automaticly generates the hazmat paperwork. The fee doesn't always go to the shipper. With UPS their hazmat fee is $25 for ground and $35 for air or 3-day. Fedex is $22.50. Plain and simple it is way over priced for the admin and what little packing is involved. there is no need for such a heavy tax.... |
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Post by rossman40 on Oct 11, 2010 14:10:22 GMT -5
They have to get the money for the fines when they screw up somewhere. I was with a major air cargo company for a while and was raised in the trucking industry plus handled hazmat shipping while in the Army. A lot of BS and the Feds show no compassion when handing out fines. If you think this is a bunch you should see what your dealing with concerning international shipments.
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