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Post by brownbasshunter on Oct 4, 2010 15:18:03 GMT -5
I have been shooting my factory ML-II quite a bit over the past couple of weeks with no problems. The last couple of days I have had 2 hang fires of just a split second. These were not back to back shots. One was about the 3rd shot in a 10 round string and the other was the 2nd of 2 shots.
I am shooting 68 grains of H4198 under a 250 sst in black mmp sabot. I have shot from 65 - 69 grains of this powder and 68 is most accurate. I am using Winchester 209 primers. They are fresh and have been kept dry. Temps have not been hot here in western nc and I let the barrel cool between shots.
I have read where some are using magnum 209 primers and wonder if this might help. I know 68 grains in quite a bit of powder to ignite by metallic reloading standards.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance !
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Post by edge on Oct 4, 2010 15:20:29 GMT -5
Personally I do not like 4198 with light bullets, with 300 grainers you probably would not have this problem....but it could be your primers, or a dirty plug, or not a tight enough fit too.
edge.
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Post by rangeball on Oct 4, 2010 15:24:59 GMT -5
Some have reported temp sensitivity with 4198 in cold weather. If you're up to it, a duplex with a fast easy to ignite powder like N110 might be cheap insurance if you're sold on the 4198 with 250gr bullets.
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Post by lwh723 on Oct 4, 2010 15:26:23 GMT -5
The only time I ever had hangfires/misfires with my 50cal was with Winchester primers, so that very well could be your problem. I also had too loose of sabot/bullet combo for my bore which probably didn't help things. Got a tighter fitting combo and switched to CCIM's and no more problems.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Oct 4, 2010 17:22:20 GMT -5
I do not claim to know it all regarding H4198 but it is my favorite powder. I've shot it from about 0 degrees into the hot days of summer. Probably 8-9 lbs of it. Mostly with 250 gr bullets and with 70-80 gr.
I find tight fitting loads firmly packed work best and I have never had a hangfire with this powder. I do not use anti seize grease on my plug, almost never scrub the barrel with anything wet, and practice regular cleaning of my plugs.
Many things can happen to a charge after it's been loaded and especially if it's been loaded for days in different conditions. Even with those conditions and long time with a loaded gun...no problems. Everything has to stay dry from both ends.
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Post by lwh723 on Oct 4, 2010 17:57:36 GMT -5
Yeah, now that I think about it my hangfires/misfires were with IMR 4198 which I think has had the bulk of the 4198 ignition issues.
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Post by tdillinger on Oct 4, 2010 18:05:47 GMT -5
Yeah, now that I think about it my hangfires/misfires were with IMR 4198 which I think has had the bulk of the 4198 ignition issues. I thought that H4198 and IMr 4198 are one in the same? I know some time back they were different but H bought IMR? |
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Post by lwh723 on Oct 4, 2010 18:44:48 GMT -5
They're comparable, but different. I don't exactly know what's different, but H4198 give slightly higher velocities than I4198. My hangfire/misfire issues happened in barely sub 32F weather. Of course, I'd gone through all of the pre-season getting dialed in without any trouble. Then come early MZ season I started having trouble which coincided with the first "cold" snap of the year. Thankfully, the hangfires only cost me some does which aren't exactly challenging to harvest around NE IA.  |
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Post by Richard on Oct 4, 2010 19:28:33 GMT -5
Don't be afraid to duplex that load for a little insurance! Also, I have shot Winchester 209's exclusively and with close to 4,000 shots, have no complaints!
Richard
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Post by lwh723 on Oct 4, 2010 19:36:48 GMT -5
Don't be afraid to duplex that load for a little insurance! Also, I have shot Winchester 209's exclusively and with close to 4,000 shots, have no complaints! Richard Richard, what's the coldest temp you've shot in? I didn't have issues until sub 32F. |
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Post by mike3132 on Oct 5, 2010 0:22:55 GMT -5
Drill out the carbon in your breech plug and switch to Fed 209A or CCI 209M and see how it does. Mike
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Post by chuck41 on Oct 5, 2010 10:50:52 GMT -5
Never tried H4198, but I too had mis/hang fires using IMR4198 in my 50 using 250gr bullets. Richard's suggestion sounds like a good one to me. I do that with almost all my actual hunting loads in my 40 even though I have never had a mis/hang fire with it. I use 7 grains of 4759 as a duplex igniter. Just reduce your main load by about 10 grains and use five to eight grains of N110, IMR4759, or AA5744 under it for ignition insurance.
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Post by brownbasshunter on Oct 5, 2010 14:51:37 GMT -5
I appreciate all the info on the hang fires.
I have read the load section and was curious/nervous about "mixing" powders for duplex loads.
I assume you put say 10 grains of N110 in first (next to breech plug) then add 60 grains of H4198 then bullet with sabot?
Lead me in the right way as I am a little nervous about the duplex loads, but am willing to try.
Thanks again and I hope to be in woods tomorrow and the weekend hunting.
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Post by rangeball on Oct 5, 2010 15:08:05 GMT -5
Yes, that is the traditional way to duplex, put the faster powder in first, then the slower.
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Post by youp50 on Oct 5, 2010 18:20:18 GMT -5
In my 50.
I duplex do to ignition problems I have experienced with 250 gr bullets and H4198. I have shot till around minus 20 degrees F.
I spend time to obtain a homogeneous mixture. As Richard will note I sacrifice around 150 fps by mixing. I have a system that allows me to easily keep the mixture homogeneous. It keeps my possibles bag simple. There are other ways to duplex and keep it simple. I just use my way because I want to. Others are perfectly correct in their method.
I use IMR SC 4759 as a starter powder, in proportions as noted in the powder section Kerry straightened out. It is not hard to duplex. If you insist on using H4198, light (250 gr) bullets and cold weather, you would probably benefit from duplexing.
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Post by mike3132 on Oct 5, 2010 19:20:34 GMT -5
brownbasshunter,
Before you start duplexing why not fix the problem first. Either you have too much lube contaminating the powder or the breech plug is full of carbon and needs to be drilled out.
Duplexing isn't the answer to the problem. Mike
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Post by brownbasshunter on Oct 5, 2010 21:24:27 GMT -5
I really do want to fix the problem. When you speak of drilling out the breech plug - is that taking a very small drill bit and spinning it with your hand to clean out the carbon buildup in the hole? I have not replaced the vent liner, but I do have a couple of new ones on hand. I have not used any type of lube on sabots to possible contaminate or wet powder charge.
I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge of this audience and the experience you share.
Thanks again and I will keep working on this.
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Post by Dave W on Oct 5, 2010 21:28:06 GMT -5
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Post by deadeye on Oct 6, 2010 7:44:45 GMT -5
had 1 sav oem barrel hang- my solution-i dry patched after every shot & it fired every time thereafter w/h4198. however i would recess your plug & go to mag primers such as fed 209m & make sure it is a tight fitting load. h4198 is my powder of choice & no problems in temps from 14-70degrees w275-300gn bullets
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