becoming a better shot

[wilmsmeyer]

Maybe this is the wrong place for this.....if someone wants to move it be my guest.

I have always wanted to only take one shot at game even when hunting with a repeater. Using an ML has made that desire a requirement and has also made me a better shot IMO.

By only having one shot, I make better decisions on when is the right time to shoot...concentrate on shooting lanes more..and also pass more on shots that I might take if I had a 5 shot chainsaw. Like running shots in the open. I've only taken 2-3 of these with the ML and made them all after following..following and seeing the exact picture I wanted. I've also passed on many more then that.

What does anyone else think about these guns making you a better shot in general?

[mountainam]

I'm an Ohio deer hunter and have run the gamit of slug guns and $15/5 slugs. I switched to a muzzleloader in '84 or thereabouts. Going smokeless is the pinacle of performance! I'd never use one if the Law didn't require it. I'm an old groundhog hunter from way back. My 6mm Rem would be my ONE GUN SHOW. To respond to your question, a ML will definitely make you a better provided it's your one gun. When I see a guy grab his slug gun for deer season and only use the ML for the special seasons it tells me that he lacks the focus and concentration required to efficiently use one. My pals show up at my range day before ML season every year with some pretty nice stuff and ask if their weapon will kill a deer at 200 yds. I put up a 10in bull at 200yds and they couldn't touch it. I'm watching them unable to steady their rifle ON SANDBAGS! A ML will make you a better shot if the effort is put forth but most are inside watching the game when I'm out on the bench shooting.

[lundy]

I would hope that hunting with a MZ would make someone a better hunter, I don't know if it makes them a better shot.

I also hunt Ohio where rifles are not permitted and the MZ has always allowed me optimum performance withing the boundaries of the gun hunting laws. I have 4 dedicated slugs guns that are extremely accurate but they are in the end still just slug guns and limited in performance.

I hunted for 20+ years with a bow only in numerous states. This hunting history forces you to choose your shot selection wisely. When I started to get too old to climb trees and I lost my bowhunting partner I started to gun hunt again. I went through the slug gun progression and then purchased a new MZ just introduced,a Knight MK-85 ,and never looked back. It has been hunting with a MZ ever since.

Everyone in my small hunting group, my son and a buddy only hunt with our MZ, it has been our choice for as long as I can remember. My buddy finally sold his Omega and purchased a Savage for this year.

That is why the Savage has been so important to me and now with the 45 PacNor even more important. I take one shot that I carefully select and I need to know, with complete confidence, that the bullet is going to go where It is supposed to go.

[herman]

I think a one shot gun helps but still a shooter has to apply the practice and practice.
Shooting is like anything else you are only going to get out what you put into it.I have been shooting 60+ years,was out hunting on my own when I was 10 yrs old.
My friend Bill that shoots with richard and I have been shooting every week except when I go hunting or sick for the past 20 yrs or more.When we go to the range it looks like we are having a yard sale with all the guns we have each trip.We each have from 4 to 10 different calibers to shoot that day.
This is why I get some good groups with the savage sometimes.
Theres no reason why anyone on the board cannot do the same if they put in the same effort as I do.
I consider richard a pro when it comes to bench shooting.He has had a good showing every shoot we have been to and held the record at 1000 yds.He got me and bill in to it and I said if I could get only one group at 2 inches at 600 yds I would be satisfied and wouldn't care if I never got another one.But with his help the last 2 shoots I have had several groups less than 2 inches.I didn't get them by not practicing and a bunch of effert,listening to richard, and a lot of luck, on my part.One shoot I came in 4th with group,think my head got as big as a basketball that day.Which I had a right to,I am a rookie and there was guys there that holds all kinds of records.Like sam hall,john lewis richard and more.One shoot I even came in 7th in score.
I have always said if most deer wasn't killed less than 50 yds there would be a lot of hunters going home empty handed just for the simple reason they only shoot a few rounds a day or 2 before season and go hunting.
What it amounts to if you want to be a good shooter or just a reasonable shooter put in the effort and practice.
If I didn't practice I couldn't hit a bull in the butt.

[ET]

Wilmsmeyer

Since shooting the 10ML-II I have been sort of forced to concentrate on that 1st shot as there is no quick repeatable opportunity with it. This in turn makes me seek the best shot window possible or pass.
Has this carried over to shooting my bolt action rifles? Surprisingly yes now discovering/knowing how important that 1st shot really is even though I have quick repeatable follow ups.

Mountainam

It’s sad to see more hunters than I care too mention adopt this one trip to the range before hunting season to check their equipment at 100yds and feel they can shoot further if necessary to harvest their large game animal even with poor target results. You’re right proficiency can only be obtained through practice and focusing on form & location on intended target. With this you also need to know the trajectory of your firearm load. So familiarity with your firearm is another key component as you pointed out.

When I see someone who knows and can shoot their firearm well I prefer to wish then Good Hunting and not Good Luck because luck doesn’t play a major role anymore IMO.


Ed

[tar12]

They only turned me loose with a semi-auto once when I was a pup! ;D They confiscated it pretty quick! They could not afford me shooting! From then on it was single shot remington .22s and H&R single shotguns until I was old enough to buy my own. As a result of these early experiences, I in no way feel "undergunned"with a single shot Sav. If anything, I feel I am cheating! ;D I feel all of my single shot shooting has made me a much better and conifident shooter.

[zakjak221]

Wilms,

When I gave up the shotgun with slugs to go to the ML,the lack of a back up shot was a concern.
As I hunted with a ML though, I accepted the fact that I had to focus,take my time & make my single shot count. In return I would get better accuracy,distance and performance.
As I've said before,I think the Savage ML is a perfect weapon in many respects-and it does its job cheaper and with less maintenance than other ML's that smoke!!!
What a deal!!

I am a happy camper and yes, I think it will make me a better shot knowing that I have to make the first shot count!!

Mark

[bigmoose]

When I was a young man I was an excellent marksmen, sounds silly saying it, but it never the true.
With my Savage rifle its truly a one shot rifle, rifles as the Ruger #1 are single shot rifles, not one shot rifles,
The change for me is buying into the manta of big game guides, GET A LITTLE CLOSER., I am proud that I have yet to
lose a game animal, and plan to keep it that way, I will know when I can no longer shoot to my expectations. As of now shooting as much as I do, I'm happy with my marksmenship. I can still put 3 or 5 shoots in the 3 inch yellow circle off my shooting sticks
I shot a 2 3/4 group from the bench with the Barnes Buster 400gr bullet with 71grs of Benchmark, now that doesn't sound very impressive, but nothing walking on this good earth with know the differnce when hit with a 3 inch group or a sub MOA with that load.

[ozark]

It all begin when my Dad gave me three .22 shells and told me I had better come back with four squirrels. He knew the dogs would catch one by the time I shot three. That is a lie. Now lets get to the truth.
As a competitive shooter I didn't like to drop points. That made me aware that every shot was equally important whether it was from 200 yards or 1000. Even near perfect shots would cause you to lose points and I developed a habit of doing my best on each shot.
Since retiring from the Army and for a few years before I took all my deer with one shot kills. But that was my schooling. I can easily see where the ML could be a positive influence on causing hunters to avoid any careless shots. Good thread. Ben

[Richard]

While some on this board are of the opinion that you need to get out and shoot like you hunt, I find that my bench time is equally if not, more important. Knowing you gun and developing reliable loads is paramount in making good hunting shots. On all my big game hunts out west and up into Canada, many, many hours of testing and shooting from the bench went into the loads I took on these hunts. For me, if I was going to spend big buck to go on a hunt, I wanted my equipment to be fine tuned. And that meant lots of time at the bench. All my shots on big game animals were taken from some sort of a rest. Be it back pack, dead fall tree, or prone with a bi-pod. Good sight picture and trigger control, from my bench shooting, came into play. 200+ yard shots on antelope and mule deer with a "hand-cannon" were made due to bench technique. I had put over 500 shots thru that hand gun the spring and summer preceding that hunt.
So.......Deadon? Have some patients and get out and try these different loads and methods. You obviously were able to get the $$$ to afford the Savage and then the PN so you need to come up with a little "Do-Re-Me" ;D for the components. Shoot those 20 gr. XTP's; they are cheap and shoot very well. And, if you can't kill a Va. whitetail with one of them, take up golf
Richard

[stubblejumper]

Perhaps a more ethical hunter as well when it comes to shot placement, passing up shots if required and getting closer.
Where I live they opened up a primitive weapons season 2 years ago and I was so excited! Since then the ML has become my favorite weapon, but I would guess that 90% of the hunters here went to slug guns and most of them couldnt consistently hit a deer at 100 yards with the first shot. Not the fault of the guns but it seems there is no need to practice etc if you have enough ammo in the tube.

[Harley]

Wilms, I don't know why, but I shoot no better with the ML than with my center fire rifles; I still close both eyes when I squeeze the trigger.

What I have improved on is my ability to tolerate frustration.

Harley

[edge]

I agree with Richard on the shooting time!

While I don't like target shooting, it makes me confident in the field.
Some say you need to shoot the way you hunt, but for me if the sight picture isn't there then it isn't there.

Would i pull the trigger more often if I shot using field conditions more... perhaps, but being a poor trigger person the more time I spend at the range with a "perfect setup" the better I will end up on game....IMO

edge.

[bigmoose]

It would be much easier to agree with Richard and Edge.....But, Here is my take on the issue.
Bench shooting at a 100 yards, proves what your rifle is capable of shooting, this is not to be confused with Richards 600 to 1000 yard shooting, which is a sport by itself. I know zero about that except to know great skill is involved.
My point is shooting from the offhand position [ in my case] with shooting sticks lets me know if I'm ready, and what is my limit [range wise] since I only have a 100 yard range, by sighting in 3 inches high at a 100, I feel comfortable shooting at a large animal at 200 yards.
Lets say, in years to come [if they come] I can no longer put my shoots in a three inch circle say, I can't hit a 7 inch pie plate, I have seen gents show up at hunting camps who could hit the plate [offhand woth some kind of rest 1 out 3 times. That would mean for me, put away my rifles and get out my fly rod and go see Mr. Tarpon, Mr. Bony Fish and of course Mr. Redfish
Marty

[dougedwards]

It seems to me that the more you shoot the muzzleloader the more things within the rifle's system seems to change like vent liners, breech plug carbon build up, etc. In times past I would shoot 30-40 shots per week but now rarely shoot the gun once I find a dependable load. Right before season I will practice shooting from a shooting rail and make adjustments if necessary. I may shoot other rifles during the year but once a load proves itself dependable in my smokeless muzzleloader at most all temperatures I leave it alone.

Doug

[edge]

bigmoose, I know what my sight picture should look like. If I am standing on my head the sight picture still needs to look the same

Now I will absolutely admit that you will probably pull the trigger sooner and more often than I will because you are more proficient in your field position.

If I were to shoot offhand, shooting stix, etc., and the cross hairs won't stay in the kill zone then I can't shoot. For me it is as simple as that, but if the cross hairs do stay in the kill zone then I hear a BANG ;D ...it is that automatic for me.

No reasonably solid rest then there is no bang.

edge.

[deadeye]

i dont think any one gun makes you a better shot,its the time & dedication to this sport but i understand if mz slowed you down to take more notice in your shooting skills. day in day out with a accurate gun will give yourself a reading on how your manipulating the rifle exempt the changing conditions. example-you can be shooting a mz off the bench @ 200yds accurately,if you dont do your homework wind reading etc-@ 350yds etc,all the sudden your not a good shot//if shooting @ 1,000yds in a match & rifle is not returning to battery quickly-condions change rapidly & without adjustments-you might not be a better shot all the sudden. some can handle light recoiling guns to only find problems w/heavy recoilers which by a marksman's standards should mean no difference. imo,i think the shooter that understands themself to a higher level & can factor in the the constants & make the correct adjustments is a better shooter.dont think jimi hendrix's stratocaster @ woodstock made him a better guitar player ;D ;D ;D

[bigmoose]

Edge,

I take it you are a young man, when you get to be 3/4 of a hundred, you may find the sights on your rifle have learned to dance.
Iron sights are now a 50 yard max.
and all the weight training will not change it { IN MY CASE}
My wish for you as the fine gent you are, is that never happens, and your crosshair stay rock steady.

[chuck41]

There is little doubt that having a dozen back up bullets in the magazine does not increase the accuracy of the first shot. A kid with a semi-auto learns to spray bullets at random through the woods, the same kid with a single shot will learn to actually shoot and be a threat to squirrels, rabbits, birds, as well as deer. That is a lot of the reason why single shot guns are popular for teaching kids. It is not just that they are less expensive, they teach good habits.

Us bigger kids are not a lot different. Shooting a muzzle loader is good for making the shooter concentrate on the job at hand since there is not a bunch of "insurance shots" in case of a miss.

I have watched numbers of people show up at the range and unload their autos and proceed to spray the backstop with lead, if they can indeed hit the backstop. Almost everything they learn at the range comes under the general title of "bad habits". For any practical purpose it is a total waste of time and ammunition. The discipline enforced by a single shot or muzzleloader is a great teaching tool and like Richard said, there is no substitute for practice.

[rangeball]

I used to hunt with a buddy (passed on ) and when his son was young and hunting he used a semi-auto shotgun. We called him boom boom........boom

[bigmoose]

It reminds in the Army, once a year the truck drivers of the 2 1/2 ton trucks, had to qualify with the ring mounted .50. It was spray and pray, none of them ever qualify.