Interest in the Smokeless Savage

[ozark]

It is mind boggling how much interest is shown in the Smokeless Savage section. Comparing the number of post against the other sections one would have to push everything else to the side in favor of the Smokeless Savage. It must be because getting the best accuracy and trajectory out of it requires answering so many questions and doing so much experimenting. It is like all other rifles are supposed to be accurate but getting the most from the Savage ML one has to become a specialist concerning his individual rifle. With all the changes one might have to do a DNA study to prove a relationship between what is being used and the Savage Smokeless. How many divorces have occurred because of love affairs that left the wife out? I can imagine a cartoon with the wife on the couch and the Savage wrapped in silk in bed with its owner. I would seriously like to read some responses on the reasons it is so popular. Ozark

[Dave W]

In no particular order.
Power & Performance- you are not going to achieve the power a MLII can generate safely with a BP gun, the Ultimate comes close but at a much steeper cost. No comparison between the MLII and a slug gun for longer ranges.

Maintenance- Mine goes a month with a fouled barrel during slug and ml season with no cleaning. I pitted an Encore barrel because I forgot to clean it for a couple days after firing.

Accuracy-The .45 is more accurate sabotless so I can't say it is the most accurate ml I have ever owned, but my MLII shoots circles around every TC I ever owned and will holds its own against MY .45 with saboted loads.

Wide range of powders to choose from and brings in a reloading aspect.

Two of my favorites-DUPLEX. and this Board. I knew about this gun from a guy in Michigan but I never would have took the plunge if I had not found the old board. Thanks guys for fueling the obsession and lightening my wallet considerably.

Just my opinions and experiences.

[ET]

Ozark

Yes the Savage 10ML-II is a demanding mistress at first but when you begin to understand her and her demands for performance she’ll give you the loving accuracy desires you seek. But that comes at a cost of learning and possibly financial investment towards her welfare. She’ll stimulate your joy when you cleanly harvest a kill or produce those lovely groups at the range.
As you begin to understand her needs and provide them to her your relationship becomes intertwined with a strong bond of belonging together in the field. Should you neglect her needs she’ll become sassy, uncooperative and that really puts a kink in your relationship.

Putting the feminine comparison aside this muzzle-loader is the joy in my collection of firearms. It appears there is no hard-set limit to what you can learn or achieve with it. The relationship/interest never seems to dull with the variety it has to offer. I can put it aside for a time if necessary and continue later where I left off without missing a beat. Yeah I’ll admit I’m captivated with this muzzle-loader and enjoy every minute of it when all is well.

She now has 2-younger sisters, 45 & 40 who appear to be sweet hearts to those that have adopted them. Call me an old fashion sentimentalist because the 50 still holds my heart.


Ed

[lwh723]

I come here for the sole purpose of keeping up to date on Smokeless shooting.

Shotgun world is for slug shooting
Iowasportsman is for local stuff (although I have a love/hate relationship with that site--mostly hate)
Predatormasters for my AR and varmint hunting
Archerytalk for archery stuff
AR15 mostly for their classifieds although I keep track of the classifieds on about all the boards I visit.
Etc, etc...

[wilmsmeyer]

Although my interest has waned...I still read this forum daily. I might not log on unless I want to make a post or respond. I say waned because I have all the gear, all the data, years of components and no further goals. The guns have become tools in a sense.

This gun (and smokeless ML'ing in general) is nothing short of revolutionary. Along with the power, the gun has the ability if tuned correctly and matched with suitable components, to be very accurate in both .50 and .45.

But who shoots a .375 magnum from the bench EVERY weekend for the fun of it? Not many. But we do it with this gun like it was normal. And some do it with great skill.

This weapon has given the folks in the shotgun areas a 3 fold effective range and a slight edge over the BP crowd. It has done this fairly inexpensively for the average guy that does not go bonkers with gadgets and searching for 1/2 MOA.

Anything new and useful gets the most attention. Smokeless is still fairly new and still evolving with the smaller bores. More and more info out there is getting soaked in by the masses and guys are getting up-and-running faster each year.

Regarding the Savage wrapped up in a silk nighty while your sweetie sleeps on the couch.....you guys have some problems. I haven't heard of anyone doing this but it sounds like the perfect way to get your ramrod stuck. With occasional reports of stuck ventliners and breech plugs, my advise is to leave it at that because those are easy problems to deal with compared to the ramrod issue.

[chuck41]

Oct 2, 2010 6:17:29 GMT -5 wilmsmeyer said:

. . . . . . . . . . .
Regarding the Savage wrapped up in a silk nighty while your sweetie sleeps on the couch.....you guys have some problems. I haven't heard of anyone doing this but it sounds like the perfect way to get your ramrod stuck. With occasional reports of stuck ventliners and breech plugs, my advise is to leave it at that because those are easy problems to deal with compared to the ramrod issue.

Wilms is right on. My ML10-II / PacNor 40 is a precious piece, but it resides in the closet come bed time.

It is easy to see why the smokeless forum here gets most of the traffic. lwh723 said it very well. This is the only really quality forum on the web for smokeless muzzleloading!! Those of us that enjoy the sport/pastime/addition have only one source for really good discussion on the subject. No wonder this is the most popular forum on the board.

There is lots of good places competing for the attention of the rifleman, pistoleer, reloader, gun dog fancier, archer, even the black powder shooter, but only one quality hangout for the smokeless muzzleloader.

[zakjak221]

The smokeless Savage ML gives me a single shot centerfire rifle that is legal in Illinois for deer.
There is NO equal in my mind for power,versatility,distance & accuracy.
I used to deer hunt with a slug gun (for about 15 yrs)--talk about primitive compared to the Savage ML!!
You'll hear stories about 100 plus yard kills with slugs---I never seen it. They are very unpredictable in terms of accuracy and performance. Animals would be completely missed or wounded.
Plus you get the support,ideas and help of this board--What a deal!!

Mark

[Richard]

Talk about a benchrest shooter going head over heels for a front loader . Well that is what happened to me. While I still shoot the benchrest game, I devote very little time to load development or practice . When I go to the range, 90% of the time I only bring my ML and shoot it for five hours! I just get so enamored over the variety of loads I want to try. This week it is going to be a foray into triplex loads What the heck, if two powders work so well, just think how well three might work? Stay tuned for this weeks results ;D
But..........Oh yeah, the gun stays in the basement...NOT the bedroom
Richard

[lwh723]

Oct 2, 2010 11:46:49 GMT -5 zakjak221 said:

You'll hear stories about 100 plus yard kills with slugs---I never seen it. They are very unpredictable in terms of accuracy and performance. Animals would be completely missed or wounded.

I wouldn't argue that the savage 10ML isn't light years ahead of slug guns in consistency and accuracy. But someone that completely misses an animal with a slug gun shouldn't blame the slug gun. When you put the time, effort, and practice into finding the right load, it's not overly difficult to get out to 100 yards with a slug gun. I've shot numerous deer in the 90-125 yard range with various slug guns. Since I found the slug load it likes, I've never shot over a 3" group at 100 yards with my Ithaca Deerslayer II.

[Deleted]

this is the ONLY place on the web other than wakeman ( and he dont count) that a fellow can learn all he needs to know about the savage front stuffer. she is a whole different animal than her bp counterparts and more guys are realizing this. I know many guys early on that abandoned the savage because it wouldnt shoot. they just didnt have the knowledge they needed to get up and running and that is found here.

also these guys are glad to help anyone that stops in and are gentlemen in the process. far too many forums that I visit have there own little pecking order and some can be down right rude. on occasion the Goat escapes the pen here but gets put back in the lot quickly.....Bill

[Richard]

I'm sure glad you didn't mention the word "recoil lug" ;D
Richard

[tdillinger]

Oct 2, 2010 14:22:47 GMT -5 lwh723 said:

Oct 2, 2010 11:46:49 GMT -5 zakjak221 said:

You'll hear stories about 100 plus yard kills with slugs---I never seen it. They are very unpredictable in terms of accuracy and performance. Animals would be completely missed or wounded.

I wouldn't argue that the savage 10ML isn't light years ahead of slug guns in consistency and accuracy. But someone that completely misses an animal with a slug gun shouldn't blame the slug gun. When you put the time, effort, and practice into finding the right load, it's not overly difficult to get out to 100 yards with a slug gun. I've shot numerous deer in the 90-125 yard range with various slug guns. Since I found the slug load it likes, I've never shot over a 3" group at 100 yards with my Ithaca Deerslayer II.

I shoot a 1187 copper solides and my groupd is less tha 1 get a better gun or better load. Slugs are accurate and dependable. its all about talent at some point

[wilmsmeyer]

I know that this is about the Savage but regarding slug gun accuracy, there are plenty of shotguns made to shoot slugs. There are also many slugs made that shoot good...and for $3 a shot they should.

My slug gun has taken a back seat to an ML for about 11-12 years now. However, the gun I have, a Mossberg 9200 auto with a cantilever scope mount really shoots well with certain slugs. The choice round for the smallest group is the 2 3/4 oz Barnes EXP. A few years back I shot a group at 160yds that made my Knight Disc jealous. About 2". Sighted for 100 yds, this group was about 1 foot low at 160.

Anyhow, just about any std velocity slug, including Winchester fosters will print a 4-5 inch group at 100 yds. High velocity slugs have never groups for me or seem to throw a wild flyer here and there.

Off track a little here. The Savage became the gun of choice when it could do more then my Knight, even if only a little in terms of reasonable feild shooting. And it does it much cleaner.

[lwh723]

Oct 3, 2010 5:36:48 GMT -5 wilmsmeyer said:

High velocity slugs have never groups for me or seem to throw a wild flyer here and there.

That was my experience too, until I switched to 20ga. Personally, I think it has to do with the sabot to bullet diameter ratio we know so much about from shooting the Savage. Right now, I'm really digging the Remington Accutips, but have had good success with 3" Fed Tipped Barnes Exanders and Win Partition Golds (all 20g).

In 12ga, the 3" Fed Barnes (1700 FPS) is my hunting groups all time favorite. Never could get the 1900FPS variety to shoot consistently though.

Good point on the price, although if you shop around you can usually knock it down to $2/shot which isn't astronomically higher than shooting the BX out of a Savage.