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Post by tdillinger on Sept 28, 2010 16:22:24 GMT -5
Per a kind gentlemen on another thread about the Barnes Bullets in the 50 cal Savage the .458 300g Barnes Original Semi-Spitzer paired with either an MMP Orange sabot or the Harvester Black Crush-Rib has no equal. I have heard this before and i have yet to try the mentioned combonation and here is why. lots of bullets, powders, and sabots out there in the muzzle loader world. I did a lot of surfing the internet, reading blogs etc before purchasing my 10 ml and deciding what board to join. So got the 10ml and joined this board and i decided to try the Hornady 250 XTP with a mmp HPH24 with 42 g of 4759 sparked by CCI . I spent a good three hours at the range and 26 shots later i have dialed the scope in to cover a 3 shot group with a nickel at 100 yds(not bragging it just worked). So my question is has anyone tried the 4759 with the above Barnes Semi? I would like more velocity but I am wading into deep waters as i just started smokeless ML. Has anyone tried the 4759 past 43g? I like the setup I have now and feel confident. Should I even consider changing?
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Post by ozark on Sept 28, 2010 16:31:59 GMT -5
It is fine to experiment and try other loads but I suggest you call that your GO TO load. And keep track of the changes you make so you can backtrack to get to this load. Personally I would be pleased with what you have and call everything ready for the hunt. You can get more velocity that isn't needed. I think my advice is a repeat of what edge gave me when I was at your stage. He said something like: Forget everything and make sure your knife is sharp. Ozark
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Post by ET on Sept 28, 2010 16:34:56 GMT -5
Tdillinger
To answer your question I would say when you are satisfied and happy with what you got.
You’ve not only got a good hunting load but a good baseline load to compare other loads with. Nothing wrong with peeking around at some other loads to see what’s out there.
To get my accuracy and velocity with 2300fps I use 43gr 4759 out of the 1/2lb metal can and 45gr of 4759 out of the plastic 1lb jug.
Ed
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Post by tdillinger on Sept 28, 2010 17:17:10 GMT -5
Tdillinger To answer your question I would say when you are satisfied and happy with what you got. You’ve not only got a good hunting load but a good baseline load to compare other loads with. Nothing wrong with peeking around at some other loads to see what’s out there. To get my accuracy and velocity with 2300fps I use 43gr 4759 out of the 1/2lb metal can and 45gr of 4759 out of the plastic 1lb jug. Ed Ozark thank you for your feedback.  Et why the different canisters metal/plastic? and what velocity are you getting with 45? I have been using the 1lb plastic. |
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Post by ET on Sept 28, 2010 18:05:02 GMT -5
Tdillinger
The difference with 4759 containers was seen appearing when one powder supplier bought out the other company. From personal testing by myself and others like Herman for one it was discovered that an additional 2-grs of powder was needed from the plastic container as compared to the metal container to achieve the same velocity.
Example;
Metal Can 43gr 4759 = 2300fps
Plastic Jug 45gr 4759 = 2300fps
I suspect there may be a slight change now implemented for powder manufacturing process of 4759. Not absolutely certain about this but a good practice I now do is check the velocity per given powder load from each new container with my Chronograph. It helps to eliminate any guess work when something appears off for a given load.
Ed
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Post by tar12 on Sept 28, 2010 18:07:19 GMT -5
The BO will out perform the XTPs on every front.The closer you get to bore dia. your accuracy increases.It is that simple.I have shot the BO extensively the last couple years.It will take a deer out at any angle period.The same can not be said for the XTPs.Yes the XTPs will kill deer and yes they are accurate to 150 yds but that is where XTP perfomance stops IMO.I have not shot 4759 with BOs but have used N110 in which it is very comparable and the accuracy was outstanding and IIRC the velocity was around 2150 fps 43 grns. The powders to get in the 2200-2300 plus range are N120 and H 4198 for 300 grn bullets.
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Post by Chris Champion on Sept 28, 2010 18:22:00 GMT -5
tdillinger,
I believe I am the kind gentleman of which you speak. You were originally asking about the Barnes MZ & TEZ bullets. I suggested that of all the Barnes offerings, the BO is the king of the hill. As Tar12 elude to and many others can attest, the BO is probably near the top of the food chain if not the "Alfpha Male" of bullets in the 50 cal Savage when it comes to a combination of accuracy and on game performance out to 300 yds.
I agree with ET and Ozark that you now have a baseline load and one that is perfectly capable of harvesting deer out to 150 yds. That is saying something. Some never find a dependable baseline load for one reason or another. Now if you want to try different combinations and things don't work out you always have a load to fall back on to verify that any issues you may be having with your new test loads are not gun related.
Good luck and good shooting!
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Post by mike3132 on Sept 28, 2010 18:54:15 GMT -5
Many have had success with a lot of different loads and powders in the Savage. I personally have been around the world experimenting with this gun using different bullets, sabots and powders and can honestly say all of them would kill deer.
How much you want to invest tinkering to get the last little bit of accuracy out of the gun is up to you but book loads will hammer deer out to 200 yards and beyond.
In my personal hunting situation 200 yards is about the longest shot I have so a 250 grain bullet using a book load works for me. Mike
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Post by chuck41 on Sept 28, 2010 19:10:00 GMT -5
Congratulations.  That is fine performance from a muzzle loader and will kill any deer alive out to 150 yds or so. IMO the Barnes Original is a fantastic bullet and is pretty much all the other guys have said about it, but it just ain't necessary for deer sized game within the 150yd or so range. It will carry with it at least 20% more recoil because of the weight and for wimps like me thats more recoil for no good reason.  If you need a 200 or 300 yd bullet keep looking and the BO is a great place to start, but if you are just looking for a deer load at under 200yds, you got a great one! As Ozark quoted Edge, " Forget everything and make sure your knife is sharp." However, the ML10 is a great thing to play with at the range. If you are so inclined go and have fun trying a variety of loads and bullets. Check the loads section here for recommendations, but whatever you do, don't forget the load you have now and hold it ready when you are heading to the woods. Many people never find a load that will consistently perform that well. (Remember those vent liners. They do wear out in time and can make you wonder why your great load is all of a sudden not so great.) |
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Post by tar12 on Sept 28, 2010 19:42:16 GMT -5
Anything these guys suggest will kill deer. It is true that 300 grn bullets bring more recoil.That is a given.If recoil is not a factor for you, try them!It is also true that "some" 300 grn bullets will have a decided accuracy advantage out to the 300 yd mark. As far as the BO is concerned it will perform from point blank to 300 yds with out fail,some 200 plus kills and counting from several board members have proven this out.With a BO at whatever range and angle if that bullet is headed forwards it is meat in the freezer!I have had 250 grn xtps fail to make a quick clean kill.This sours me on their use past 150 yds.You will have to decide what your max. range is going to be and sift through these suggestions.You will have to put in range time and tweak and evaluate for yourself.Then do some hair tests!I would love to have a BO in 200 grn .40 or 250 grn .45 cal.... ;D ;D As you will discover the Savage is a different beast all together and the possibilities are almost endless!
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Post by tdillinger on Sept 28, 2010 19:45:51 GMT -5
tdillinger, I believe I am the kind gentleman of which you speak. You were originally asking about the Barnes MZ & TEZ bullets. I suggested that of all the Barnes offerings, the BO is the king of the hill. As Tar12 elude to and many others can attest, the BO is probably near the top of the food chain if not the "Alfpha Male" of bullets in the 50 cal Savage when it comes to a combination of accuracy and on game performance out to 300 yds. I agree with ET and Ozark that you now have a baseline load and one that is perfectly capable of harvesting deer out to 150 yds. That is saying something. Some never find a dependable baseline load for one reason or another. Now if you want to try different combinations and things don't work out you always have a load to fall back on to verify that any issues you may be having with your new test loads are not gun related. Good luck and good shooting! If I may call you Chris, thank you. I am blessed to find a valuable baseline for myself. you made me think beyond what I was trying to achieve. Now with the other feedbacks from all Chuck41, Mike3132, and Tar12. I feel I can try more, not really sure at this point what my goal will be. i will make it a escalating challenge as it seems to be suggested. I am having fun. |
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kudzu
Spike
(dancoman - Old Mess. Board)
Posts: 39
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Post by kudzu on Sept 29, 2010 0:03:02 GMT -5
What r yall calling the BO (Barnes Original). I can only find 4 barnes ML bullets listed the spitfire TEZ, TMZ, and MZ and the Expander MZ
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Post by tar12 on Sept 29, 2010 4:51:26 GMT -5
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Post by mountainam on Sept 29, 2010 7:04:13 GMT -5
If you want to shoot a 300 gr bullet may I suggest using a slower burning powder like Reloader7 and slower yet Alliant 10x. They will lower the pressures and possibly some perceived recoil. Like others have stated, you need to access your own requirements. I think that 300 and 325 gr bullets in a .50cal perform better overall, but if your hunting situation presents shots at 150yds and under, you or your deer will not know the difference. Good Shooting!
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kudzu
Spike
(dancoman - Old Mess. Board)
Posts: 39
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Post by kudzu on Sept 29, 2010 8:29:46 GMT -5
what MMP sabot for the BO .458
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Post by rangeball on Sept 29, 2010 9:19:53 GMT -5
what MMP sabot for the BO .458 Orange. Black Crush Rib for Harvester. |
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kudzu
Spike
(dancoman - Old Mess. Board)
Posts: 39
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Post by kudzu on Sept 29, 2010 9:58:26 GMT -5
the harvester - H15045BR shows for a .451-.452 bullet. Did not find one for the .458
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Post by rangeball on Sept 29, 2010 10:13:32 GMT -5
Don't think it specifically says for .458, it's just been found to work well with .458s due to it's crush rib design.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 29, 2010 12:45:12 GMT -5
the harvester - H15045BR shows for a .451-.452 bullet. Did not find one for the .458 That is the correct one.I believe it was Rossman that discovered this. What a discoverey! |
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Post by Chris Champion on Sept 29, 2010 16:53:55 GMT -5
This proves my comment in the other thread!! ;D |
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That is fine performance from a muzzle loader and will kill any deer alive out to 150 yds or so. 
