10 or 7.......That is the question!

[rbinar]

Sept 12, 2010 19:56:00 GMT -5 Richard said:

OK.........Man, am I stirring up a can of worms or what?? First off, let me say this: Richard is not a Bull Shooter! Richard shoots every week with Herman, a well respected and long time member on this board. Herman can attest to my results. Also, Herman is shooting most all of my loads that shoot good........Right Herman? If I get a load that shoots a bug hole one week, guaranteed Herman will be shooting it the next week. ;D Now mind you, Herman NEVER cleans his barrel? He does use a cool rod. And NO, my barrel never gets anywhere near freezing. To me it just feels..................well, feels normal/ambient? I don't leave it in more than 30 sec. or so. And, Herman ONLY occasionally might blow a sabot?
So, now everyone has a dilemma right? Cool rod and VERY minimal cleaning or cool rod and NO cleaning and STILL not blowing sabots at 3100 fps with a sabot that allegedly is not tough? (I'm not busting on you RB, just stating your opinion)
I say the sabot IS tough! I would think the minimal cleaning I do does help, but Herman does not clean???
I just find that I can shoot all year in any temperatures as long as I keep the barrel just normal temperature. In the winter time when we shoot from inside a "warmer" say 45 to 50* environment with the outside temps around 30*, I just stick the rod out from under a slightly open window to cool it. No ice!
Richard

It is no mater of BS to me. I'm not presuming to know the reason for the circumstance. However when you see a method and can't repeat it why is the first question.

Cool rod aside: because a cool rod will not help a hunter and all the loads I've recommended are for hunting use, I do little different than you've described for Herman and yourself when loading. Sometimes I swab vigorously sometimes I shoot dirty.

Some have reported nearing 3000fps before with the bare Harvester (I'll cite Savage Brother who posts here on occasion) but they did so by a slower powder (2015 in that case) not duplexing a faster version. By bare I mean powder, sabot, and bullet: nothing else in the barrel.

My motive is to understand not to criticize. Hey if you feel the need to "bust on me" let go. Those who were here 9 years ago know I been busted on by professionals, took it then can take it now.

Because any testing I do now is copy written I can not go test the ideas and return the results here. However that should not deter many of you so I'm simply suggesting many try it BUT ONLY BY STARTING SLOW AND WORKING UP so a consensus can be had.

[boarhog]

I started at least 10% below Richard's hottest loads. With some of his duplex combinations, I am still below his max. Every rifle is an individual, and the one I'm testing may not like something that works well in another.
As far as the cooling rod not helping a hunter, I am curious if anyone has had the same experience as I? I have never used the rod before shooting my first shot. Sometimes two shots. From that point, I use the rod so I won't have to wait 20 minutes between shots. I have assumed that the first shot while hunting wouldn't be a problem, but perhaps I should load the rifle, then wait a couple of hours before shooting. It's likely to be 90*+ during our first muzzleloader season here in S. Arkansas, and I would really hate to have a sabot shred when Mr. Big is in my sights!
Boarhog

[edge]

Loads fail in the field for a variety of reasons.
I doubt that anyone uses a load that failed at the range, so you need to check out your loads in situations similar to hunting.
That means loading and waiting several hours before firing, also the same as above but in wet / cold conditions.

This is not always easy or convenient, but a load that will misfire will usually do so only when a big buck in in your sights....Does always seem to be a bang flop but big Bucks get a ffft.

edge

[Richard]

Dave W.............and I quote from my last post: "And, Herman ONLY occasionally might blow a sabot?" So I did acknowledge that he has blown sabots "occasionally!"
ECW.........so you are trying to psychoanalyze my writing? ;D Rotsa Ruck!
RB................All I am saying is that in my opinion, the Blue Harvesters have not given me any reasons to suspect that they are anything but tough!! If I was getting regular failures I might be inclined to agree with you, but they are not. This is only an opinion.
Richard

[herman]

First off ewc I don't think richard mention me to defend his post.He posts every week with his write up and targets for everyone to see.He keeps very good records.
As dave w posted I have had blown sabots.I remember years ago a friend and I went to the range in the winter time.His was anew rifle and I had had mine a quit awhile.We started shooting at 100 yds and our bullets were all over the target board,I don't remember how many but was several shots with me trying to figure out what was going on.I checked some of the sabotsfrom both rifles and all the petals looked like a helicoptor blade.These weren't a blown sabot at random but every shot looked the same.Don't remember what we did to fix it but we finally got them to shooting like they were susposed to.This is the only time that I have had blown sabots one after the other.
Now I get them every once in awhile shooting hot loads.Or maybe I should say when I have one to go wild and miss the big target board I blame it on a blown sabot.Looking for one at the range is like looking for a needle in the hay stack there are so many on the ground.
What ever we did that day it worked, when the sabots started looking like they were susposed to I watched him put 7 shots in one big hole at 100 yds.

[ewc]

Richard / Herman-

FWIW, my post was a suggestion, nothing more. I'll not post here again if you two keep this up-

Judd

[Richard]