First day with the new 26" .45 PN

[Richard]

For the benefit of dave d............Please look at targets 7 & 8
You bet your bippy, Richard can shoot three shot groups too!
After shooting target 7 at 200 yds., my friend Bill said: "you better save that one for your forum buddies!" I was very tempted to shoot another two shot, but since I know everyone likes to see three shot groups, I "bit the bullet" and left it at three Then, just for the heck of it, I said: "Lets see what it does at 100 yards?" Hmmmmmmmmmmmm? Actually bigger? I guess I'll just have to throw this one away and try another load ;D
BTW, Herman also shot it and got a great group. It is a keeper!
While I don't actually think this barrel shoots any more accurate than the shorter one, it does push them bullets out quite a bit faster! Target #2 averaged 3114 fps. I did blow a sabot on the last shot, but it was my fault! I was busy talking and forgot to put the cool rod in. My velocity dropped 400 fps and no hit on the target.
With the extra barrel length, the gun is now up to 13 3/4 lbs. I have also added an optical booster to my 6.5 x 20 Leupold which gets me around 26X or so.
The new bushing I put in the rear leg of my lead sled is working out great. (Pic's and description in the equipment section)
Richard

[deadeye]

i would make a photocopy of target s 7&8,cut a new orange center,paste it to the copy & add 3 or 5 more to each target just to see. i dont know if its a harmonix thing but both my 26'' pac's flat out shoot & a 3rd which is a friend of mines 26'' show 's promise also.

[bigmoose]

Congratulation Richard,

That is super fine shooting, your 200 yard group, is mind boggling.

Marty

[boarhog]

Glad to see the Barber Pole Barrel is shooting well! I wonder if you can get better performance with slower powders? I have no idea how 3 extra inches will affect burning characteristics?
Congrats!
Robert

[Jon]

Richard. Great shooting especially for the first time out. Wish you luck with it.
Jon

[fishhawk]

3100+fps! gotta be a state record or something! If it weren't for the lead sled your shoulder might be laying in the parking lot!

[dave d.]

Richard a change for the better ;D. Nice shooting...

[shooter]

Look like another pac-nor tack driver awesome shooting

[Richard]

Thanks for the kind words! .........But seriously, I don't think it shoots any better than the 23 incher? Just more speed at lower pressures.
Yes, next week I am going to try some slower powders for my main charge. N-133 and Accurate 2015.
Richard

[ET]

I "bit the bullet" and left it at three.
Richard, trying to lay a guilt trip on us who easily favor 3-shots groups over 5-shots won't work. ;D ;D

With the new barrel you are easily getting that 3000fps velocity you want sending hot projectiles down range. Glad the new barrel is responding to your likes.

Ed

[zakjak221]

Very nice groups there Richard.
I notice that groups 7 & 8 were three shot groups?
Apparently it didn't take long to dial that new barrel in.

Mark

[Richard]

No guilt trips Ed! If you had been shooting bechrest as long as I, you would probably feel the same way
Richard

[DBinNY]

Very nice Richard. Doesn't look like you'll have to send that one back. You gonna try 4759 or 5744 with H322 or R7?

[Deleted]

its a shooter for sure, the trigger man is doing good as well....Bill

[ET]

Sept 1, 2010 14:20:26 GMT -5 Richard said:

No guilt trips Ed! If you had been shooting bechrest as long as I, you would probably feel the same way
Richard

Just kicking back a little verbal fun.
You're right if I was a serious bench rest shooter I would demand a higher level of consistency. It would be a necessary evaluation of shooter, rifle and load for competition purposes.

But my goal is not competing at a range against other shooters.
I admire your shooting skills and taking muzzle-loading to new heights but at the moment I'm in the classroom next door for Hunters.


Ed

[Richard]

ET..........I realize this board is mainly in the classroom next door also But you know what? I have found in life that you should always try to associate or emulate those who are better or have more expertise than you.
NOTE: This is not about Richard! This just happens to be fact.
What I am saying is this: Prior to getting into benchrest I was a varmint shooter and reloader and thought my "stuff" was pretty good ;D Then I hooked up with someone who had recently gotten into short range benchrest. I started seeing his guns and loading procedures and impressive targets and all of a sudden, my equipment and procedures were "ancient!". Then I started attending matches and "associated" with many more people with more knowledge than my buddy. What I am saying is if you keep associating with people on the same level as you, you never learn more or get better. As a guitar player, I found I needed to associate with better guitar players in order to improve and learn more tricks. You name it.................You learn from people with more knowledge or skills than you have.

After getting my feet wet here, I felt some of my knowledge of benchrest and rifle building and loading could benefit the hunters and everyday shooters. Just ask Herman and our friend Bill? These two guys have been shooting together for almost 20 years! Ask Herman how his level of shooting and equipment has changed since he hooked up with me? Herman and Bill are good shooters but they had no idea this higher level of accuracy existed? Now they are shooting at a competitive level. (and loving it ;D)

Obviously I butted heads with a number of members on the board when I started introducing various aspects of benchrest into muzzle loading. Heck, what did I know about ML'ing? What I did know was that after figuring out the nuts and bolts of the Savage .50, was, that it was the *&^%$# barrel that was the cause of my learning curve being stunted! Once I got a quality barrel on, then my benchrest knowledge was able to showcase some better results.

So, I just like a larger sampling of shots to get the confidence in a particular load. In my case, it happens to be extreme accuracy from my equipment................Not just "deer good!" If I did not go thru all the trouble to shoot these various duplexes and other loads, the majority of people on this board would still be shooting 42 gr. of 4759 with a 250 gr. XTP or SST in their .50's or 56 gr. of H-4198 with a 195 Barnes in their .45? At 67 I am still learning a lot about accuracy. I still frequent my benchrest board and pick up new information on a regular basis because there are a lot of other knowledgeable people that I learn from
If you think this is about Richard, it is not! Just looking to give back some of the knowledge I have acquired.
Richard

[lundy]

Richard,

I too am just a hunter and will never do much bench shooting other than to find a load that I will hunt with.

That being said PLEASE just keep doing what you have been doing.

I have learned a bunch about various loads, velocities and accuracy. You have shortened my learning curve and needed bench time so I can spend more time hunting. Keep shooting those 5 shot groups, I appreciate them big time!!

I don't want to see any more 3 shot groups from you, it hampers my learning progress ;D

Thanks,
Kim

[ET]

Richard

First off I enjoy a good discussion on many things in life and shooting is one of them at times.
I truly hope this one doesn’t create any offense being felt. But I also feel you are taking a defensive stance on proving your point is the right one when it has not been really challenged by me and others.

So lets take a close look at the 5-shot group.
-Is it a better indication of consistency and accuracy, I’ll say yes.
-Can a better evaluation of groups be made, I’ll say yes.

Now the big question is “Do I need to produce a 5-shot group for validity and acceptance”?
Here the individual shooter needs to decide what he needs to conform too for his needs. This is a choice and not a must for a set rule that everyone needs to adhere too.

Richard you have made a lot of great contributions to this board with your knowledge and experiences. This has given many other shooters new selective choices to help improve their accuracy or get the best from their equipment.
Now when we help others we can only make suggestions for them to follow from our experience and let them decide to adopt what they feel is best for them and respect their choices.
To do otherwise won’t get you any popularity votes.

To add a small point of interest I now have elected to normally use a 4-shot group for evaluating my accuracy instead of the standard 3-shot group. Simply my choice in what I feel would be beneficial for my required shooting accuracy.


Ed

[Jon]

This may be a stupid question, I'm good at atleast one thing (stupid questions} But what would be concidered too many shots. Sooner or later something will go wrong wind shooter error etc. So what would be too many shots to give a true test of the rifles accuracy?
Jon

[Richard]

ET..........you will note that on numerous occasions I have said: "what ever is comfortable for you?" (or words to that effect?) I simply "suggest" that a larger sampling is more indicative of the loads potential. You have obviously changed your way of thinking right? As you have "edged" up from three to four shots. Who knows, maybe five? ;D
Herman and Bill have now gone from shooting three to five shot with their CF bench guns. Why? They know that at a match, you fire five shots. They also know that if one of their five shots is out of the group, then the load needs more work. Either bullet seating changed, powder up or down, case prep, primer, and on and on. Yes, this is for target shooting but the same hold true for a hunting load. You strive to be as consistent as you can. The more accurate and consistent your load, the more leeway for error you have in the field.
Jon........there is not real number of shots! But, the more you shoot a load, the more confident you are that you can put your bullet where you want it with reasonable certainty.
Richard

[ET]

Sept 2, 2010 19:49:14 GMT -5 Richard said:

ET..........you will note that on numerous occasions I have said: "what ever is comfortable for you?" (or words to that effect?) I simply "suggest" that a larger sampling is more indicative of the loads potential. You have obviously changed your way of thinking right? As you have "edged" up from three to four shots. Who knows, maybe five? ;D
Richard

Richard

I'll be honest and say why I went to a 4-shot group.
With my 10ML-II I do an intermittent bore cleaning after 4-shots.
All my rifle clips hold 4-shots and between each clip I allow my rifles extra length of cooling time.

So to me here a variable is occuring after 4-shots and what better way to monitor this than keeping my groups at 4-shots.
I'm content at the moment with what this setup reveals.

Ed