Question regarding Savage bolt removal

[bayou]

Well I'm trying to decide on what to upgrade to, either a savage smokless or another BP. I have been doing alot of research and I have a question regarding the 10 MLBTSS-II bolt removal. After reading the thread about breech plug removal I am confused as to whether I can take out the bolt without taking the action/loosening the action screw. To be honest I don't think I want to fool with ratcheting out the breech plug through the BP area, seems to be over complicating a simple objective. I'm from Ohio and have several shotguns and a couple BP's but only two rifles which are Winchesters inwhich I can remobve the bolt without doing anything else. I am looking at the thumb hole SS and it has a suggested retail of $915. After $915 I don't want to send it off to get a third piller/screw added. Shipping, postal insurance, price to upgrade for the modification by someone and I am lookin at probably $1200. Might as well get the Nula, am I mistaken about the bolt issue?

[foxgrape]

Maybe this link will help clear things up.

Richard does great work with bedding and third pillar installation, at a more than reasonable fee He has worked on my gun as well a 3 of my friends. We are all happy campers.

dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=smokeless&action=display&thread=1154

[ozark]

To remove the bolt it is necessary to loosen the rear action screw. But this shouldn't cause a problem because most have found that doing so doesn't change the zero. Most people buying the Savage does end up glass bedding the action and adding a third action screw. But I think this stems from the individual wanting to wring out every fraction of an inch accuracy. I personally don't feel it is needed for a good hunting rifle.

[Dave W]

Natchez has them for $670.
www.natchezss.com/category.cfm?category=19&brand=BV&catLevel=1

[youp50]

Its a federal rules thing. The ML-I could be converted to a center fire rifle, a point of contention with the firearms laws. So Savage came out with the ML-II. That is why there is a difference.

A number of ML-IIs will change point of impact when the rear screw is loosened for bolt removal.

There are three ways that are currently accepted to overcome this problem.

Some add the third pillar. Some use the ratchet system. And some remove the top of the rear screw completely. All methods have their advocates and detractors.

Using the ratchet system is really not very complicated. I am quite certain that if you can maintain a firearm or load a muzzle loader you have all the mechanical aptitude necessary to use a ratchet to remove a breach plug.

[10ga]

Bayou, The only upgrade I made to my stock (blue with tupperware stock) MLII was bedding and bore polishing, which I do to all my rifles, CFs and even .22s. It'll shoot MOA with factory loads and shoots better "dirty" than clean. For hunting it is really great. Once I "sight in" in September I don't touch anything. I will shoot all season including frequent check sessions without cleaning. When I do clean I just back off the screw that keeps the bolt in and slide bolt out. Then use a torque driver to put screw back in to the same # as before. With the bedding I don't think anything moves. No change in the POI. My best load is 42 gr. of 4759 under orange sabot and .458 dia. 300 gr. bullet. That is consistently MOA or less. It seems complicated and it's a bit different from shooting Swiss or Goex but it's really accurate and powerful. Then you can use the "HOLY BLACK" or a substitute in the MLII too, but then you'll have to clean every session anyway. I got my MLII last year and put about 250 shots down range before I felt that everything was well settled. Mostly me learning to shoot the smokeless. Read and heed the tips and hints, use the search item and you'll not regret going smokeless. My $.02 10 ga

[esmd]

You only have to loosen it a couple of turns, and for me, it's never affected POI. I did buy a $50 torque wrench so I could properly torque the screw upon re-assembly. My gun is bone stock, no alternate plug, no bedding job, no 3rd pillar, and it shoots great. I have the same model you're considering, the thumbhole laminate.

My only advice is to get it. You won't be sorry, even if it takes a little R&D to find the sweet load.

[nic58]

I marked my rear action screw with two dots of paint when the gun was new and when I loosen it to remove the bolt, I just return the screw to the same position until the two dots align again, therefore maintaining the same torque on the action screw. I've never had an accuracy problem while doing this and my action isn't bedded either.

[ozark]

It is a simple matter to determine the effects on POI caused by the rear screw tension. Shoot on paper and after each shot rotate the screw one half turn tighter. On the one I had it made no difference in the bullets impact. I decided it was something to worry about that was useless worry. Later a stock was given to me and I bedded it, added a third screw, filled the magazine weld and it shot plenty good enough for hunting. I happen to be one who doesn't demand bench rest accuracy for hunting. So long as a rifle will put bullets in a two inch circle at 100 yards I am good to go. If it takes super accuracy to melt your butter then enjoy making alterations, changing loads until you get there. Be patient though because the trip may well be long. The usual route is to spend a lot of time and money with the .50 original and then go to a pacnor in a 40 or 45. If your personal demands are high then the cheapest route is go there from the start. A super accurate riflle and load in the hands of a highly skilled shooter is a thing to admire. It it happens to be you then you will fee much pride in rifle and self.