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Post by tiswell on Jul 27, 2010 7:33:15 GMT -5
I am new to this forum and the Savage ML system. This forum seems to be "the place" to learn about what makes these things tick. My past ML experiences left me wanting better bullet performance and I thought I would try some Barnes 290 T-EZs. They were loaded with a red crush rib sabot over 44 grains of 5744. Results were minute of pizza box for 5 shots. The last shot never made it to the target. Reading some of the posts here made me aware of the need to cool the barrel. So I will incorporate a cool rod into the routine and I am backing up a bit by ordering some hornady 300 gr XTPs and some MMP HPH 12 sabots just to try to get a starting point to work from. The rifle is a new Stainless Savage ML-II with a laminated stock in .50 cal. It sports a new leupold VX-II 3x9x40. I checked the front base screw for length when I mounted it and it does not bottom on the barrel threads. The bore gages .503". The barrel was cleaned well prior to the initial firing. The one item of concern is that before it was ever fired it loaded with a smooth push until about 10 inches from the breech where a rougher area is encountered. I may apply a little JB paste before the next outing in hope to smooth that area. Is there anything else that I should do or look for in an effort to achieve better accuracy.
Thanks, and Thanks for this great resource!
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Post by whyohe on Jul 27, 2010 9:12:49 GMT -5
you have got a good start on the diagnosis. what you need to look for too is that the scope base in the front is not hitting or riding on the recoil lug. cant find the pic i had to show you???
another thing that might be the problem is the red crush ribbed sabot. I dont beleave it is designed for a boat tailed bullet and you are probably blowing the sabot. With the T-EZ you need to use a sabot designed for a boat tail bullet (if yours are).
also as a suggestion, when you have a question we like to know the out side temp. I'm sure as you have read it can play a part.
Look at the bore of your gun if you can. some have reported that the stainless barrel bores can be "rough". i fyou do that let us know what ya find. GOOD LUCK, and WELCOME to the board.
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Post by tiswell on Jul 27, 2010 10:56:51 GMT -5
whyohe,
Thanks for the feedback. I will check the lug/base area, but I think the edge of the forward base stopped at the front of the receiver. The bullets were flat based and outside temp was in the lower 80's. I scoped the bore previously and did not see anything obvious but I will scrutinize more carefully tonight. I found 2 sabots, one was missing one petal the other had all of them. I have a feeling that the last shot did blow a sabot. The barrel was warm but not hot, but i can't hang a number on it. I plan to pick up a temp gun to monitor the barrel temp in a meaningful way.
Thanks, Bill
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Post by dans on Jul 27, 2010 11:05:33 GMT -5
One of the most accurate loads for me in several Savage MZs is the 44 grain load of 5744, 300 grain Hornady XTP. CCI 209m primer, and either a mmp HP-12 or a mmp HP-24. I wipe between shots with 3 or 4 drops of Shooters Choice, then a dry patch. In these high temperatures, a cool rod and/or appropriate waiting time is of utmost importance. Also keep your components out of the hot sun and preferably in a cooler. I as a matter of routine JB the bore of my rifles 300 to 500 strokes before shooting them for the first time. After that, maybe 100 strokes every so often when I think the accuracy may be improved. My buddy Mike 3132 has an ML-1 module gun that he has had since they first came out. His rifle shoots just about everything extremely accurately. He probably has somewhere between 1000 to 2000 strokes on his barrel.
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Post by ET on Jul 27, 2010 13:35:14 GMT -5
Tiswell
Welcome aboard.
When the barrel is warm to the touch on the outside it is much warmer on the inside. In order for heat to propagate through metal the source side will always be hotter.
Also if you can’t definitely see a clear division line between receiver and recoil lug after scope base is mounted odds are the scope base is making contact with the recoil lug. Even the smallest contact can play havoc with scope and groups.
Just some food for thought.
Have fun.
Ed
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Post by Richard on Jul 28, 2010 19:51:14 GMT -5
Tiswell................welcome to the board! If you should have any questions or need some help, give me a call.
Richard
828-396-9512
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Post by tiswell on Aug 10, 2010 7:40:52 GMT -5
So, I lapped the barrel with JB for 500 strokes and got some 300 grain XTP's and HPH12 sabots. Powder charge was 44 grains of 5744 as before with fed primers. Used an aluminum coolrod (whoever came up with this was a genius!) Outside temp was about 90. Bore still feels like it has some rough spots that begin 10 inches or so from the breech but the lapping helped. Don't have digital thermometer yet, but I left the rod in barrel between shots until barrel and rod felt to be same temp. 5 shots yielded a 3+1/2" group. A great improvement over my first outing, but not where I want to be yet. I am going to work on this barrel a little more before my next session.
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Post by edge on Aug 10, 2010 8:03:19 GMT -5
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Post by tiswell on Aug 10, 2010 10:52:27 GMT -5
Point taken, I will address this when I take it apart to lap again. Before I mounted the scope I flat filed the lug down to the receiver surface and blended with scotch brite. The scope base just comes up to the edge of the receiver face, but it may extend onto the lug by several (like no more than10) thousandths. I was reluctant to go there because I lapped the rings in place and didn't want to do it again, (lazy) if I didn't have to. I really thought the likelihood of this area causing trouble was small but will address it to rule it out.
Thanks, Bill
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Post by whyohe on Aug 10, 2010 12:41:33 GMT -5
you dont have to file the lug. it is easier to file/ grind with a dremel the base itself. just the lower front edge and you dont have to worry about hitting barrel or recever.
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Post by onecardchuck on Aug 10, 2010 14:16:15 GMT -5
tiswell,
This may save you some work. You say "it may extend onto the lug by several (like no more than10) thousandths". Before you pull everything apart do what I did as mine looks the same way. Slide a very thin piece of paper in there and see if catches or you can freely move it. This will hands down tell you if you have a problem.
Hope this helps.
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Post by boarhog on Aug 10, 2010 20:30:02 GMT -5
When I ground a bevel on the underside forward edge of the front base, that rifle went from 6"+ groups, to 2" and under.
You may need to try a number of sabots with your chosen bullet. One of my 50s refuses to shoot any .452 bullet in anything but a MMP short black sabot. The same ones Savage sends in the pack that comes with a new rifle.
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