Improving stock ML II accuracy - your input

[northny]

I was in the just starting a test of what would make the most improvement for accuracy on my rifle when my scope puked. So I need to back up and restart

My baseline rifle (and I have an identical spare if I want to do further testing) is a factory 50 cal ss with tupperware stock and factory simmons 3 -9x.

My go to load is hornady 300 grain, bcr sabot, 44 g 5744, ww primers. Typically shoots1.75 inch. (I get lucky, 1.6 inch or rarely up to 2 inch.) Does not shoot 1.5, and if over 2.0 I screwed up royally. I weight each charge, swab between shots, use cooling rod, etc. I can get the same results with 250 xtp or 250 SST, ( same powder, different sabots). no better or worse. I have tried other bullets , powders, sabots without improvement over this book load. hence the test to see if I can improve the rifle. Plus I have to be very careful to rest tupperware stock near recoil lug to get this consistancy. I hope lam is more forgiving.

My initial plan (shooting after each stage)

1. install lighter trigger spring (shooters supply)
2. switch tupperware stock to factory laminate stock
3. upgrade to higher power (at least 12x, maybe 16X) scope
4. bed laminate stock.

My intial results -
1. no improvement from lighter spring- not surprised - accu- trigger is pretty good, and I shoot a lot of rifles with worse triggers so I have pretty good trigger control.
2. I had just started shooting with laminate stock installed (just bolted on replacement and made sure barrel was free floated) when my scope went south. Improvement was somewhere between 1/4 in reduction and WOW! I had 1.5 inch group going including first fouler, with shots 2,3 and four overlapping when scope gave it up. I was excited, but then results could be a one time fluke. I would be suprised if this made a hugh differance.

So the new plan

1. -I am going to leave the lighter trigger spring in.
-Put action back in synthetic stock
-Mount a new scope (probably variable to 12 X)
test in this configuration

2. switch back to factory lam stock and test ( i have installed limbsaver recoil pad on lam stock)

3. bed laminate stock and test

My testing will likely be three to five five shot groups using my go to load, repeated on two or three range session for each modification.

Why am I doing it is stages? Damfino. Perhaps I am just a geek. Or it could be I am cheap and lazy. After I upgrade my rifle, I will want to do the same for my son's rifles, so maybe I dont have to do it all on theirs. Most likely I will repeat the tests on their rifles (trigger springs here already, second lam stock ready to go...) to see if results repeat. I may just have a MLII sickness.

Any suggestions on my order of testing or other suggested items? I am trying to keep this more or less savage parts. I intentionally did not include pillered third action screw or a pac nor barrel., or aftermarket thumb hole stock (thats for later, I do plan to eventually go to a 45 pacnor, bedded with third screw).

[jims]

You are doing it the correct way by making one change at a time. If you start with multiples that may well help but you do not know which particular one made the change or if they all did to some extent. The old high school constant and variable.
Even if each change helps, each progression may yield smaller improvements. It may not be as difficult to reduce from 1.5 to 1.0 inch, that next .5 inch reduction will be tough IMHO.
The fun is in the trying.
Keep everybody posted.

[deadon]

northny, what a great i dea. I am very interested as I am still shooting stock 50 tuperware. I wonder if the camo paint makes any difference ;D

[rossman40]

That is the thing, some shooters will do a ton of mods at once and then something goes south and then have to do elimination to find the cause. So a step at a time would be a good method.

With me getting the trigger ironed out was minor. Getting the barrel polished to the correct point helped a lot at least with the pre-2003 sabots. I think bedding was a big improvement with my rifle and ether going with a stiffer stock or learning how to shoot the synthetic helped a lot.

[Richard]

Northny...........Sounds like a great plan. Interested to see the results along the way.
Richard

[artjr338wm]

I learned the HARD way YEARS ago with in the first 500 or so shots with my Encore 209x50 and thankfully prior to buying my 10ML-II, that there is nothing that will help a muzzleloader more or be of more importance to and affect his success with muzzleloader accuracy more than [glow=red,2,300]dirt simple patience.[/glow] Of this fact I have zero doubt.

I bought my 10ML-II after months and months of researching 10ML-IIs. My research lead me to have two modifications performed on my 10ML-II itself and one to it's breach plug as well. All three modifications were performed for the sole purpose and intent of (hopefully) eliminating any possibility of one accuracy issue common to 10ML-IIs from ever occurring in my 10ML-II and one simply for the sake of my personal convenience.

I look back now and wish I had shot my 10ML-II first before having the two modifications performed so I would have a accuracy base line in which to determine if the modifications were necessary and actually did result in a measurable and exactly how large of a improvement in my 10ML-II's accuracy, but I did not. I sent my 10ML-II away to be modified with in 24hrs of receiving it from NSS, unfired no less!

I say I regret not having shot it first because my 10ML-II shoots better than I had hoped for and I will never know if it was because of the modifications or not.

I guess I should stop my whining and be thankful for what I have in a 10ML-II.

You are as others have said, going about your list of improvements in the correct manor. Just keep to the rule of performing a single individual improvement like switching from a synthetic stock to the laminated wood then shooting to see if any increase in accuracy occurs.

IMHO the three things you plan on doing I feel will help you most would be:
#1-Bedding the action
#2-Using a scope with a higher magnification say 14x-16x would most likely help you shrink your groups some. IIRC I have read more than once the saying of "the easiest way to shrink your groups is to use a more powerful scope" I did and since going to a 14x scope I definitely got better groups at 200, 300, 400 yards than I use to with my 7x or 9x scopes.

One other modification/improvement you might want to consider is having a third action screw installed so as to totally eliminate one more factor that might be affecting your 10ML-II's accuracy.
I did it to my SST/LAM 10ML-II and I have not experienced a single POI change after I have loosened the action screw so as to remove the bolt for cleaning it or the barrel.

I apologize if I am suggesting something you are already doing , but keeping concise as possible range notes about the results or lack there of, of any of your improvements will also be of tremendous value to the success of your testing. IMHO a set of well documented concise range notes are as important as anything else you do in trying to maximize your 10ML-II's performance.

Good luck, and keep posting your results.
Arthur.

[ozark]

Going to a higher magnification scope may indeed improve accuracy. Just as ditching the scope and using iron sights will hinder accuracy. Both changes the shooters ability to shoot accurately but the rifle isn't effected. If changing the scope to a higher magnification causes a noticable improvement of groups, I think it exposes a clue that the shooter needs attention as much as the rifle. Many many times I have seen blame placed on a rifle but placed directly on the shooter when the same rifle is shot by a highly skilled marksman. That point aside it sounds like you are taking the steps to shrink the groups logically and I am satisfied that you will end up with great accuracy. You have good accuracy now but not good enough to completely please you. Keep on keeing on, you are moving toward satisfaction.

[mountainam]

Northny, I agree with your methods and logic. When I'm looking to improve my grouping I re-read RB's pressure traces under the Tips section Powders subsection. He recomended that we try 10x and cited his reasons. I did and it really seems to close up the groups while being on the lower pressure side. May I suggest that you use your 300 Hornady Hp and give 10x a try. There's not a whole lot of loads in the archives but there doesn't need to be. I too shoot a 300 gr HP and when I switched from 5744 to Rx7 I thought I saw some improvement,but when I went to 10x I really saw the groups size shrink. Just wanted to share my success in this matter. Good Shooting!

[northny]

artjr338wm and Ozark,

I do suspect the higher scope magnification will help. On the target I am using, my cross hairs at 9X obscure the horizontal and vertical lines, and I know I can slightly move the rifle but it still looks aligned. For my hunting, 3 -9x is fine. But my varmit guns all have 12x or better, and shoot sub moa. I suspect I will see some improvement.

Mountainam - after I go through the hardware list of changes with my "go to" load, I will go back to testing powders, bullets, and sabots. I will add your suggestion to the list.

I will say at this point my favorite modification is the limbsaver recoil pad.

[holstonangler]

I agree with a higher scope mag. I cannot even see if my crosshairs are still enough with a 9x at 100 yards to gain anything sub moa.