Cooling rod uses do's and dont's please

[artjr338wm]

As I will be adding a aluminum cooling rod to my range equipment in the near future, I would like to know how those of you who have them and use them regularly do so exactly so as to maximize the cooling rods effectiveness and do so with the LEAST AMOUNT problems/hassles as possible.

I plan on building a cooler out of 4" PVC and also have a piece of 3/4" centered inside it to hold the rod while it cools. As luck would have it I already have over 90% of the materials needed to build the cooler for the rod.

I will use the plans featured in the tips and hints section to build the cooler, I just need a step by step set of instructions how one uses the cooling rod itself.

I would also like to know if it is advisable to reduce my powder charges even though I am using a cooling rod.

The weather near me is getting hotter with temps averaging now in the upper 70s to lower 80s and I feel it necessary to use a barrel cooling device so I can continue to shoot my 10ML-II.

Thanks,
Arthur.

[boarhog]

Arthur,
I considered building one, but decided against the PVC cooler for several reasons:
1. I am clumsy and it is guaranteed that I will knock it over somehow.
2. I felt that it would be harder to fill with ice than a small chest.
3. With a small chest, I have the option to use frozen 2 litre bottles floating in water instead of buying ice, or getting in trouble with The Bride for robbing the ice maker.
4. As hot as it already is here, I can carry soft drinks and bottled water to drink while shooting. Perhaps a few snaks in ziploc bags. If I thought the sabots were too warm, I could put them in a Ziploc and put on ice.
5. You do not need to cool the entire length of the rod. sticking a few inches of the tip in ice cold water, or touching a bag of ice, will have an aluminum rod very cold for its full length by the time you have your next shot fired, and speed recorded in your log book.

As far as reducing loads, I have not seen any need to do so. When you take the cold rod out of your cooler, dry it with a paper towel and slip it into your barrel. Within about 1-2 minutes the barrel is cold to the touch. I can't see how shooting loads in a rod cooled barrel would be any different than shooting @ 40* hunting temps. It is supposed to be 95-98* here next weekend. If I get a chance to shoot, I definitely will! In my opinion, the rod takes weather out of the equation for us.
Boarhog

[deadon]

Arthur, I ask many questions before I made my cooling rod. I did not build a cooling rod cooler like Richards yet and may not because I use my cooler for more than just the rod. I shoot,Take the rod out of the ice cooler,wipe it with a blue shop cloth like comes on the roll and wipe it again and shove it down my barrel. Five minutes later I remove it,put it back in ice water , pop a cap ,reload and shoot. One thing I did was I left it the full three foot length. I figured the longer the more it would dissipate heat. I have noticed that no matter how much I try and dry the cooling rod, When I remove it from my ML it always seems damp compared to the part of the rod that was never wet. That is why I always pop a cap before reloading. I have used it thru 4 range sessions and love it. Thanks to all,Rusty PS If you are going to add the 3/4"pvc to slide the rod in, I would make sure I had plenty of holes drilled in it so the ice water will touch the rod. I don't know if it will get cold enough if you don't. IMHO Just two more

[boarhog]

I do not pop a cap, but I generally lightly clean between shots. Once I tried shooting a 5 shot group without cleaning. I used the rod, put it back in the cooler, reloaded, and shot. Other than the bullet/sabot getting harder to push down, I saw no difference in group. No failure to fire, hang fires, or bloopers. I didn't even dry swab between shots.
BH

[tick]

One thing to look out for is what type of end cap you use on the pvc. I had 2 different types and kept cracking them causing them to leak. I tried to be careful lowering the rod but sometimes the ice froze together and it would crack the bottom I had used. I tried to make the bottom harder and tried different sealers to get it where it didn't leak but to no avail. Finally, I went out to my old workplace and got an old pipeline marker post and cap. I had to hit it as hard as I could with a 20oz hammer just to install the end cap. It doesn't leak and makes a very good cooler.

[Richard]

Art................Here is the "skinny" from the guy who (also Herman) uses the Kool Rod and the Kool Rod Cooler every week! If you build the kooler as I have illustrated, it will not leak. I have done NO, zip, zero, repairs to my cooler since I built it, well over two years ago. Plain and simple.......I remove the rod from the cooler, wipe it with a rag/towel and then do a final wipe with a paper towel. Insert in the bore for about 30 sec. (if you do it after every shot) (if you do it after maybe two shots? You may have to leave it in for a minute or so) If I have cooled down my barrel for say.........30 sec. then BS for five minutes, I can go two shots before it needs to be cooled.
I would beg to differ with Boarhog that you can cool just a few inches and the whole rod will be cold??? I tried it and hence the rod cooler was born ;D. I want the entire rod cold. Try it for yourself: take a coffe can and put four inches of ide in it and stick the rod in............after five minutes grab the rod 20 inches or so up from the bottom and tell me if it is the same temperature as the bottom? Whether you clean or don't clean, I suggest one dry patch in/out after removing the rod.
The only time I had a "fail to fire" while using the rod? It was because I was not wiping off the very "bottom/end" of the rod. I was sliding the rag down the rod but not catching the end. (I had left it flat on the bottom) To help with this situation, I rounded off the bottom so the rag more easily included the very bottom. I also just "dab" the rod on the rag also. What happened is there was a drop of moisture on the end and when inserted in the bore, the water went right into the vent liner
As far as that GIZMO to "center the rod" Why? Neither mine or Herman's have any such thing? If you put ice cubes in the cooler, every time you insert th rod, they just separate as the rod goes down. It does not matter whether the rod goes in perfectly straight or at an angle.....Its still going to be in the ice. As far as the ice freezing together??? Never happens to Herman or I and we use just regular ice cubes.
As far as altering loads??? I shot the same stuff summer and winter. Thats the beauty of using the rod. You are maintaining a similar temperature all year long!
Here in NC we shoot in temperatures form the teens to the nineties. My wait time is the same whether summer or winter. When I am shooting a string of five shots, my average time in between pulling the trigger is 4 minutes.
When I remove the rod after 30 to 45 sec. the lower portion of the rod (the area which had the most heat) comes out feeling about ambient temperature. So leaving it in too much longer is not going to make the barrel any more cooler? The rod can only exchange so much heat.
If you have any questions on the above information, shoot me a PM and I'll give you my phone number.
Bring along a little Igloo for the soda pop!
Also, I never have cooled my sabots?
Another also...................when assemblying the PVC, do make sure everything has been sanded smooth and you use the "purple" prep prior to the glue. With the lower inside of the 4" PVC sanded smooth, I poured fiberglass resin in to seal the wood plug and flow alongside it and seal to the PVC. (O) leaks!
And.......as far as tippin over? with the 12" square plywood base I have had zero tip overs ;D

Again I say, over two years shooting almost every week of the year using the cool rod, this is what Herman and I have found.
Richard

[Jon]

I agree with everything Richard said, he is the man. I'm lazy I took a 2 6 pack cooler drilled a .5 hole in each side of it. I pull two bottles of frozen water out of the freezer add water I've got a lot of space for liquid necesities and if one rod doesn't cool it enough I have a back up. So far since I shoot 45 and 50 I can have one rod of each. I'm sure it is not the best but it works for me.
Jon

[boarhog]

At the angle my rods sit in my ice chest, around 12" is in ice cold water. If i have a large bag of ice in the cooler, the ice touches the rod a bit higher, maybe 14-15". Perhaps I leave the rod cooling a bit longer than Richard, but when I feel the part that is not under water, it is very cold. I haven't got one of those fancy thermometers, but it is cold enough to do the job, especially since the coldest part is where the barrel needs it the most. I would never presume to say my way is best, or that anyone should do what I say. It works for me.

[youp50]

I am curious as to the leaks.

Are you busting the cap off the bottom? If you are dropping the rod through the cap maybe you should try a Schedule 80 cap. They are gray in color and have a thicker wall.

There is a clear primer made. Plumbing inspectors like the purple primer because they can see it. If the joint is leaking try three coats of primer. Prime the cap and the pipe. Wrap a layer of masking tape on the pipe to keep the purple primer from running all over the place, makes a neater job. After priming glue both the pipe and the cap and put them together with a twist. Hold them in place for a minute or so. Sometimes the joint pushes apart. There is slow set glue, hold that stuff in place longer.

Has anyone ever messed with evaporative cooling? Seems to me one could swab the bore with alcohol and cool the barrel at the same time.

[Richard]

Boarhog...........12" inches is a bit more than "sticking a few inches of the tip in ice cold water?" and then having an ice bag that touhes 14 or 15" further up the rod? ;D And with that, I would have no problem sort of agreeing. Since those first 15" of the rod get down to the area of the most heat.
Richard

[tick]

As far as leaking goes, I tried to use a pvc knockout flange so it would be easy to mount to a square piece of wood. I'm NOT the tinkerer that Richard is and was trying to get by as cheap and easy as possible. Those shortcuts didn't work. Build as to Richard's specs and you'll have no problems and they work great!

[lundy]

Jun 3, 2010 5:17:52 GMT -5 youp50 said:

After priming glue both the pipe and the cap and put them together with a twist. Hold them in place for a minute or so.

Just to add, DO NOT let the primer dry like you would with a paint primer. The primer is chemically softening the surface to allow for the solvent cement to make the bond.

Prime and then immediately, with the primer still wet, follow with the cement

[youp50]

I don't think that is correct, Lundy. We let the primer dry all the time. I have worked at a plant where acid and copper is pumped through the system. Couple that with wandering direct current and its hard for a joint not to develop leaks. We will sand to rough the surface and triple prime there, letting each coat dry. Like you say, all it is doing is softening the vinyl.

[herman]

Just to add one thing to richards post.I don't run a patch down the barrel between shots or fire a primer.I just wipe the cool rod down,put it in the barrel a couple minutes and reload.So far with shooting hundreds of shots with the cool rod in the 50 and 45 cal. I have never had a misfire yet.

[deadon]

Herman To Quote an old country Music song, "You are standing in the shadow of a great man" With that said ,You are one of my heros Sir and I am soooooooooooo happy you have not given up on the 50 cal Savage. When you Type I listen. I look every week for your range reports so please ,Keep um coming. Thank you , Rusty

[lundy]

Jun 3, 2010 16:55:49 GMT -5 youp50 said:

I don't think that is correct, Lundy. We let the primer dry all the time. I have worked at a plant where acid and copper is pumped through the system. Couple that with wandering direct current and its hard for a joint not to develop leaks. We will sand to rough the surface and triple prime there, letting each coat dry. Like you say, all it is doing is softening the vinyl.

Very involved with vinyl pipe, PVC and CPVC and solvent cements and in a large part how I have paid all of my bills for the last 30 years. I'm in some of nastiest chemical plants every week, with every acid, base and solvent you can think off. It's easier to find someone that can tig weld titanium than it is to find someone that knows the Manufacturers recommended methods to solvent cement PVC

The primer should not be dry. That defeats it's entire purpose and can reduce joint strength by many factors. Sanding the surface also reduces the joint capability. PVC can be put together in a bunch of different ways and most will work for the intended (easy, low pressure, low chemical exposure) purposes, however only one method will acheive the maximum potential of the joint.

www.regalplastics.net/pdf/IPS_How_To_Guide.pdf

[youp50]

I will, once again, stand corrected.

[rossman40]

Talk about finding bad PVC/CPVC joints. A friend of mine plumbed his compressed air system in his shop using PVC. One guy on the crew was, lets say a bit sub-standard, on his joints. As we started pressurizing the system a joint would fail, after about 4 tries we figured out all the failures was from the same guy. I was a bit skeptical at first running a system in PVC instead of good old iron pipe. But the system was 1/3 the cost and after the initial bugs and proofing at 300lbs the system has been flawless and no rust flakes to deal with going on now 6 years.


As far as cooling rod use I think as we gain experience using them things will get sorted out. I only used one once last year and in the low 80s just laying the rod on a damp towel seemed to do the trick for the few shots I shot. I'm sure there is a point where "chilling" the rod is required. Afterall my earlier testing showed you gain about 3-4° per shot so you have to suck up that much heat. Now with a aluminum rod you have the thermal conductivity but not the thermal capacity. If you think putting a 77° aluminum rod into a 83° SS barrel will will drop the barrel to 80°, I do not think that will happen. Maybe we can find a rocket scientist to figure out exactly how many BTUs we are dealing with and the capacity of the rod. The only draw back with chilling the rod is condensation which can hurt.

I'll try to do some testing here next week. If one can measure the temp of the cooling rod before you insert it and again after you remove it that could be some gauge on how much heat you are removing.

[Richard]

Rossman...............I have personally observed Herman using the cool rod every week and not running a patch down the bore after wards and never had a "hic-cup" as far a moisture?
Now I don't know?? Getting too technical with temperatures? All I know is this.............Put the cool rod, out of the ice water (after drying off) down the bore after firing one shot (where you can feel the exterior of the barrel slightly warm). Leave in the bore 30 to 60 sec...............Remove and feel the rod; it is about ambient temperature and the exterior of the barrel no longer feels warm? Seems as simple as that to me!
Richard

[rossman40]

That is the thing, if your rod comes out warmer then it is sucking some heat from the barrel. How much heat you need to remove or how chilled you need the rod and how long you leave the cooling rod will depend on how hot the ambient temp is, the rate of fire and maybe even how hot the load. I think the thing to watch would be your barrel temp, if the barrel temp continues to rise then your "heat management technique" needs to be looked at.

As far as the condensation, having a well chilled rod in high (like 90%) humidity might give problems. But you also have to remember that most of the air is out of the barrel when the rod is in. If by chance you over chilled the barrel and once you pulled the rod you may get more then when you had the rod in. I think it would be something to watch for, a drop of water in the chamber would ruin a good ES.

In the Field Artillery we would actually swab the chambers on the 155 and 203mm after the shot with a wet mop. This practice dated back to early muzzle loaded artillery, you make sure there were no glowing embers in the bore/chamber before you rammed a new powder charge. Supposedly there was enough heat from the previous shot to evaporate any excess water left.

[artjr338wm]

Thanks to all for sharing their knowledge with me and the time the spent doing so. Thanks to all of your combined generosity I feel much more confident about how to use a cooling rod the best way once I get mine.

FWIW I will do a full report on my experience once I put the C-rod to use, hopefully in the not to distant future.

Be well and good fortune to all.

Arthur.