50 cal fouled

[deadon]

For those of you whos ml10 likes a fouled barrel I have some questions. How many times have you shot it before your groups started opening up? After cleaning,how may shots to foul it so it groups right again? Should one do a good cleaning ever so often even if it is shooting great? The first 50 or so shots I swabbed with alcohol between shots, Then did a survey on clean vs fouled and learned that most ml10 50 cal members rifles liked a dirty barrel so I quit swabbing between shots and found a good load. Now after 214 more shots and 4 vent liners later I have still not given the barrel a good cleaning. Should I or let it go awhile longer. I get about 200 shots thru my 243 before it starts opening up. After a good cleaning it takes about 6-8 shots to get it right. Shooting sabots should be a lot different thus the questions. Thanks to all, Rusty

[ozark]

My thinking is that pushing the sabot down the bore is in one sense a cleaning stroke. That excludes the area where the powder is burned. I would suggest cleaning that area especially after the number of shots you have made. By removing the breach plug and running a saboted bullet down the bore I suspect you will feel additional resistance where the powder has been burning. Maybe not. But that would be my expectations. Your post doesn't mention if you were shooting with sabots or sabotless. IMO a good cleaning would be in order after the number of shots you have made. Ozark

[Chris Champion]

deadon,

I used to clean my 50 cal barrel every 50 shots whether it really needed it or not. I also used to change my vent at 100 shots whether it needed it or not. I found that my barrel took 4 to 6 shots before it would start to group consistent after a good cleaning. At one point I did a test and at over 140 shots without cleaning, the barrel was still grouping good...so I cleaned it up, sold it, and bought a 45 Pacnor ;D

[deadon]

Chris, I don't want to high jack my own thread but right now the only way I can get a Pacnor is if some out there has one that doesn't shoot good and wants to give it away .Ya think that will happen? ;D

[Savage Shooter]

I have tested clean vs dirty on several MLs now. Some shoot better clean and some dirty (usually a minor difference at best tho).

The one thing that both have in common is that they will shoot back to POA in 2 - 3 shots. The difference being that some will continue to tighten groups for 4 or 5 more shots then stay that way for up to at least 100 shots.

The ones that like clean will shoot best groups the first 10 or so shots after fouling then open groups up before you get 25 to 30 shots down the bore.

Here is the hard part, MLs as centerfires seem to be load dependent, in other words a gun that likes dirty with one load may shoot a different load better clean, that is the time consuming part.

HTH LOL

[deadeye]

dont assume that a pac-nor does not have its personal traits also,actually after setting up(load developement) approx 600 cf's & ml's with every shot documented i find each barrel has its own personality for one reason or other. dont get me wrong i love my .45 pac's but there are difference's between my 2, one likes 4 shots(dirty) before tightening to .6moa , the other likes 8 before approx .5-.6moa,both want a reclean & reset approx after 30shots for maximum accuracy,neither likes clean,if you do they open up to a nasty 1.8-2.0moa,even tried altering the load to no avail. i just give them what they like & my log book reminds me.

[youp50]

"i just give them what they want & my log book reminds me."

That should be the closing statement in every ML-10's owner's manual!

[boarhog]

I have not shot enough to prove this, but I have a feeling that the powder you use may have something to do with whether your rifle likes shooting dirty. In my 50s, I doubt that I could shoot more than a few shots with 5744 before I would have to clean to some degree, or I wouldn't be able to push the bullet/sabot down without a hammer. In my 45, I could probably shoot quite a few shots with N-110/N-120 or N-110/N-130 duplexes. Once I settle on a few accurate loads clean, I plan to play with dirty a while.

[deadon]

Boarhog, I am probably not telling you anything that you do not know. I am a greenhorn with the ml 10 and I sometimes feel as others here probably do also that I should shut up and just listen but I can't do that if I feel I can help. . I shot the first 50 or so shots with 5744 and I agree with you about it being harder to push the bullet down the barrel with the barrel fouled. I pulled the breach plug to see why and found unburned powder stuck to the side of my barrel. Not much but 3 to 5 granuals each time. I posted a question, I think it was "favorite book loads 50 cal". I took notes and the powder that won hands down was 4759. I have shot over 200 rounds since without swabbing and have found consistent loading pressure and a couple of loads That shoot 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 " groups. I agree with you that powder matters. For me SO FAR 4759 is it.

[boarhog]

When I shoot 5744, the cleaning patch almost always comes out with powder granules on it. Sometimes more and some less, but always some. My 50 cal Cool Rod is also much tighter to slide in the barrel after using 5744. In my first 50 barrel, I got my best accuracy with the 250 gr XTP and 43 gr 4759, right up until I bulged it! Sob

[Richard]

This clean/dirty situation could be debated till the cows come home. I think everyone on the forum know that Herman and I probably shoot more than anyone else. Right now, my PN .45 has over 1400 rounds in just a Little over a year. Most range sessions I probably shoot a few more shots than Herman as he is always playing with his CF rifles also, but still a lot of shots. Herman NEVER cleans............I do just a teeny cleaning between shots. We both get similar results on the target. I just happen to feel better doing what I do.........and he, what he does? Since my regiment takes less than a minute to do and it also acts to remove any possible moisture, its no big deal. Herman, without cleaning, has no moisture problem? SOOOOOOOOOOOO, we do what WE feel we need to do ;D no method is necessarily right or wrong.
Richard

[deadon]

I agree with Richard ,If it works for you And I hope we will debate everything until the cows come home ;D

[camellips]

I don't shoot groups. I shoot cold shot center shots. I know from years bench rest shooting that groups will drive you batty and make you second guess your equipment. I usually shoot pie pans or paper plates. Sometimes I will shoot my B-27 targets sideways like a deer.


Clean or dirty my MLII responds about the same. Dead center hits if I do my part.

With that said,,I generally do not clean my MLII except once at the end of the season. Unless of course there is a reason for such as impacted moister or other derbies that may contaminate the barrel. Even then I like to shoot a fouling shot for good measure.

[deadon]

Camellips, If every shot is on a cold barrel [as the first hunting shot would be] and every shot is dead center than That is the one hole group I am looking for ;D

[artjr338wm]

May 31, 2010 13:37:59 GMT -5 deadon said:

For those of you whos ml10 likes a fouled barrel I have some questions. How many times have you shot it before your groups started opening up? After cleaning,how may shots to foul it so it groups right again? Should one do a good cleaning ever so often even if it is shooting great? The first 50 or so shots I swabbed with alcohol between shots, Then did a survey on clean vs fouled and learned that most ml10 50 cal members rifles liked a dirty barrel so I quit swabbing between shots and found a good load. Now after 214 more shots and 4 vent liners later I have still not given the barrel a good cleaning. Should I or let it go awhile longer. I get about 200 shots thru my 243 before it starts opening up. After a good cleaning it takes about 6-8 shots to get it right. Shooting sabots should be a lot different thus the questions. Thanks to all, Rusty

To start with I have never been able to shoot my 10ML-II more than 23-30 times at a range session and in that amount of shots I have not experienced a noticable or significant decrease in accuracy.

Second my 10ML-II strongly prefers and shoots it's best groups on a fouled barrel. My 10ML barrel only requiers 1 fouling shot before I can shoot excellent groups. And not just at 100yrds but 200yrds as well.

My 10ML also shoots it's best when I clean between every shot.

Once I deside on my hunting load and sight it in at 100yds and check it for POI at 200, I do not clean eithor the barrel or the breach plug untill I am done hunting that season/year.

I did learn a important lesson recently that even if your groups are still great after 30 or so shots, you had better check the degree of carbon build up in your breach plugs primer pocket because as I found out it can take up so much room as to cause your primer to compress and bulge when you close the bolt. So keep that in mind as you shoot.

I determined all of this by reading all I could here before I started shooting and trial and error once I began shooting.

Bottom line is this:
Listion to what your 10ML is telling you becuase if you listion it will tell you what it likes and dislikes.

Arthur.