So far 300 gr Bullets S@#$

[deadon]

Shot again this AM. Started out at 60 degrees and ended up at 80. So far out of my ml10 the barnes orig 300 gr .458 and the 300 gr horn. .458 shoot consistent 2 to 4" groups with 4759. Shot them with 40 to 44 grs. One thing I learned today is the 209 primer does not go all the way into the breach plug. I shot 44 grs of 4759 with the 300 gr horn HP and the primer was stuck. I had to tap on the bolt to get it un stuck. Then had to use a small screw driver to get it out of the end of the bolt. The primer was buldged out all the way around for about a sixteenth of an inch right under the lip. Maybe a sign of excess pressure, I don't know but I did not shoot 44 gr of 4750 after that and could not find the sabot.I want to stick with this powder for awhile as I have just bought a new can. I am thinking that this ml10 likes .452 bullets better. The horn 250 XTP shoots good. I did not bring my calipers with me this weekend so I can't measrure them but I have a few of the 300 gr Shockwave. Does any know if they are .452 or .458.

[herman]

Sounds like you need to clean the primer pocket out a little,you can do this with a "C"drill bite but don't go too deep.Or if you have a differnt primer you can try that and see if it works better.
My 45 does this with the win 209 but no problem with the ccim.
The 300 sst and sw are 452's.

[artjr338wm]

Deadon sorry your having problems, let me make a few suggestions. But first keep in mind concerning any of my suggestions I do not know your level of knowledge with the 10ML-II, and as you have not listed weather or not you use a specific loading method or in between shots cleaning method, and you did not list what sabot type you are using, so do not get upset or offended if I suggest to you something or ask you something you are already doing or know about.

I will start with some questions that will help me with knowing what to suggest to you or advise you on.
First above all I can suggest have you read all there is at the "Tips And Hints Section" of the 10ML-II board, and not just read it, but fully understand what it is you have read? Most likely all the info you need is contained there.
#1-What type of sabot or sabots are you using with each bullet specific to it's OD? .452" and .458"
#2-What type of primer is giving you the problem, as some like the Fed209 are longer than say the CCI209. For example Fed209s are to long in my Encore and allow me to close it, but CCI209s work fine.
#4-How tightly or not does the sabot/bullet your using load?
#5- How many shots did you have on your breach plug when your primer bulge occurred?
#6-Have you yet cleaned your BP 100% COMPLETELY CARBON FREE, installed it back in your 10ML-II, placed a primer in the bolt and tried to close it to see if your primer still bulges to check to see if the cause of your primer bulge was carbon build up in the BP?
#7-When shooting do you wait as long as it takes until your barrel cools to the same temp as it is out side? most likely around 10min minimum.
#8-What type of shooting rest do you use and how and where does it hold the stock of your 10ML-II?
#9-Do you start out every shooting session with first firing a fouling shot, and then shoot for groups?
#10-Do you start each session with a 100% clean barrel and BP, and I do mean 100% clean.
#11-You said you shot from 40-44grns of SR4759, at what grain increments did you increase your charge weights, and did you fallow these increases exactly or skip a few sizes in weight.
#12-Do you keep any form of range notes and if so how concise do you take them?

Some suggestions if you have not already tried them:
#1-Give Harvester a call at 800-922-6287. Explain your problems you having getting .452" and .458" bullets to shoot and who makes the bullets your shooting, ask the tech you speak to which Harvester sabots (prob 2-3) will work best and then ask them to pleeeeeeease send you a free sample pack of of them to try as they have done so for all I know of who have asked.
#2-What ever step you perform while shooting your 10ML-II make sure your doing it 100% exactly the same each and every time you do it especially the fallowing steps:
#3-Loading the powder/Loading the bullet(do you orientate the sabot to the rifling?, do you use a short starter?, once the bullet/ sabot is seated on the powder do you compress it for a count of 1001, 1002, or similar?,
#4-Do you use a in between shots cleaning method and if you do are you doing it after every shot?
#5-Are you sure you are using the same exact bench shooting form as closely as you can repeat it for every shot?
#6-If you have a spent primer that is stuck, simply re-cock the bolt and dry fire it, that is usually enough to get a stuck primer to come out by hand.
#7-You should at the least keep some sort of notes to record the events of every range session, especially any problems you experience, and any thing new you try.
#8-I strongly suggest you only test on component (bullet, sabot, primer, powder) at a time and never ever change more than one component at a time. Like finish teating .452 bullets and sabots before you try .458" bullets and sabots.

If you have not figured out what I mean by all this, it is actually quite simple. What ever it is you do while shooting your 10ML-II doing it consistently the same 100% of the time every time is IMHO the only way you will ever reach your accuracy goals what ever they might be.
After you answer a few of my questions and think over my suggestions, let me know what you think and we will take it from there.

Please understand I am only suggesting what has worked for me in the past and you might vary well find some or all of my input of little use to you, but it did work for me, and about 99% of it I learned from others here at Doug's who shared what worked for them with me in getting their 10ML-IIs to shoot their max potential.

Arthur.

[bloodtrailer]

If the temp is above 50 you will have less than ideal shooting, and must reduce your loads. Below 50 and things seem to come together well. also letting your barrel cool between shots (never liked the cooling rod with my 2 savages) Get some remington 300 .458 jhp and use these as a base line( shoot great in most guns)

[Richard]

Bloodtrailer..........you are obviously doing something wrong then. Because Herman and I plus many others on this forum are using the cool rod with excellent results. I have looked over loads that I shot in the winter and the same loads in the summer and there is no discernible difference in velocity OR accuracy. My shot wait time is rarely more than four minutes between trigger pulling all summer long. A cool barrel is cool whether it is summer or winter.....just a different way to get it there Our concern is the heat of the barrel softening the sabot and thereby allowing high pressure blow by. So, if the interior of the barrel is cool, the bullet could care less what the outside temperature is.
Richard

[artjr338wm]

Richard if you would please oh please be so kind as to post me a link or any other info to get the plans for your barrel cooler design. I have the Savage bug worse now than ever and it will be in the 70s-80s for the next five months or more and combine this with my two favorite ranges are 1.6-2.5hrs from my home and you can see why waiting 10-15mins BTW shots just will not
do.

The only range near me (near being a relative term) with a 300yrd capability is a little over 2hrs from my home and I wish to give my Savage a try there.

I desperately wish to give 300yrds a try and do not want to wait until Oct/Nov to do so.

Thanks,
Arthur.

[1shot1kill]

My cool rod is a 3/8"x36" aluminum rod that I picked up at Lowe's or Home Depot. I cut it to 30", sand blasted it to make it porous, and then added a file handle to the end of it. On hot days, I keep a rag in my drink cooler that I carry to the range. I take the rag out of the ice water in the cooler, wipe the rod down several times to get it chilled, and wipe it dry with a dry rag and place in the bore for a few minutes or so, and remove it and your bore is cool for the next shot.

[edge]

14- MISCELLANEOUS ( PRODUCTS, TOOLS, BARREL COOLER, ETC ) [/b]

Barrel cooler [/b]
dougva.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Savage&action=display&thread=685

dougva.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Savage&thread=9675&page=1

Complete plans - Barrel cooler [/b]
dougva.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Savage&thread=1188483928&page=1

[bloodtrailer]

Richard I never said they didn't work for you , I said I did not have MY BEST SHOOTING with the rod, my best shooting time in and time out is in weather of 50 and below waiting between shots. Never needed to to shoot fast, or special barrels, 66- 67grns H4198 black rib sabot Rem 300 jhp all under 1 1/2 at 100 ( under 1 inch on ;Da good day) and 2 1/2 at 200 with both savages(2) .50 one out of the box and one RB improved, or with 43grns 4759 same sabot and bullet ! Both like to shoot dirty, clean the primer pocket ,shoot a fouled barrel. LOVE MY LEAD SLED! I'm a Hunter not a paper puncher ( I do love to shoot)and want to know where that first cold barrel shot is going to hit. I also want the conditions as close to hunting temps. as possible (powder burn rates can change or not fire at all when cold) affecting impact points . Things change when the temp. goes down some for the better, some not, the ROD can not change everything!

[deadon]

It may be that I did not explain this primer bulging problem correctly. The primmer went into the breach plug just fine. No primer goes all the way in . The part that sticks out of the breach plug so the bolt extractor thingy can pull the spent primer out is the place that after firing my shot and I finally got the primer Off the end of the bolt, I noticed that the primer was bulged all the way around the primer directly under the lip. Also I could not find the sabot. Does anyone know it this primer swelling if you will by itself is a sign of excess pressure?

[DBinNY]

How big is the hole in your ventliner? Too big and it could be getting excessive pressure.

[deadon]

DB Your probably right , I trashed the VL after I got home, It was 0.036. I did not know it would effect pressure as well as accuracy.

[DBinNY]

The size of the hole in the vent and the amount of carbon you allow to build in your plug are both variables. The hole allows a certain amount of expanding gas to reach your primer and the amount of carbon determines how much space that gas can occupy. A completely clean plug leaves more room for the gas to expand and would result in lower pressure on the primer and vice versa. At least that's the way I think about it. You may also reduce ventliner wear by leaving the carbon in your plug because less gas is going to go through the vent. This approach, however, may result in the gun having different load preferences.