Harvester Orange Cr Rib Sabot-50 cal

[boarhog]

Some of you may have noticed that I tested a new prototype orange crush rib sabot on my last range report. Deadon kindly sent them to me to test. I did not have much luck with them at all. Of the six I tried, five of them shredded using book powders. The loads were 250 and 225 gr Hornady FTX, with 44 gr of plastic jug IMR-4759, and I also tried 40 gr A-5744 with the 250 gr Hornady FTX.

Today, I called Harvester and talked to a gentleman named Allan. He informed me that these Orange sabots were intended to be used with boat tailed bullets, and that they also have a yellow version that is designed for boat tails. He said the yellow has a tapered bottom in the bullet heel area, but the orange only have a thicker petal, and is not split the entire petal length. Before I shot these Orange sabots, I tried measuring them with several different sized bullets. With .452 bullets, it seemed to me that the bullets were bottoming solidly in the bullet cups. MMP sabots often do not let the bullet bottom out so well.

Anyway, Harvester is going to send me some more of these orange ones to test, along with some of the Yellow for boat tails. Maybe I can compare them side by side. I don't see how a boat tail bullet will be less likely to shred them, considering how well the flat base bottomed out. Guess we'll see,,,,,,Oh yeah! I also asked Allan if these are a different plastic formula than the Red CR, and he said they are NOT.

[deadon]

Boarhog, they sent me some yellow CRs also. Should have sent them to you too. Don't know when I will get a chance to shoot. The bottom of the cup where the bullet seats is squared of ,not beveled. They marked the bag 35045 BYR Maybe they have different ones. Let me know if you want these. I think there are 10 of them.

[boarhog]

Deadon,
Just hold on to them for a while. Harvester is supposed to send me some, and you may feel the urge to test them yourself.

[Richard]

Boarhog...........Thanks for the description and the great picture!
Richard
(nothing new for the .45?)

[boarhog]

Richard,
I had the PN 45 with me Sunday afternoon, along with several loads to play with, but got deluged out! For a while there, it was raining buckets! Had a couple of interesting conversations with a couple of guys. One named McNutt said he has a Savage ML10-II, and is very interested in either getting it converted, or buying another rifle to convert to 45. The other fellow said he has been studying the Savage and has been putting coins by for a purchase. He was the one that was shooting a KP-1 that the trigger group kept falling out of. I gave my biz card to both, and told them to feel free to call if they needed info, or would like names of someone to do the work.

[Richard]

Boarhog................
Richard

[shoot2reload]

That's awesome that you get to test out the prototypes! Thanks for sharing!

This will probably fall into the "it remains to be seen" category, but I have a question about these: Presumably these sabots will keep boattails better aligned with the rifling, so is the accuracy problem solved? I've always gathered that the reason the boattail bullets don't shoot well is due to less bearing surface in the bullets themselves, not from an orientation issue.

[boarhog]

Shoot2, I'm afraid I can't answer that. Your guess is as good as mine. I have not tried any boat tailed bullets yet. Maybe I didn't read other posts carefully enough, but I thought the boat tail did not support the sabot base well enough and was prone to shred? Seems like I also read about the possibility of using a metal washer under the bullet heel to make it harder to blow through the plastic. Just looking at the inner bottom of the bullet cup on these orange sabots, I don't see how they would hold up any better with boat tails, but I intend to try.

[artjr338wm]

Borehog I have a question for you.
When you spoke to Allen at HS, did you by chance ask him if the orange CR sabots were made of the same material, thickness and over all durability as the yellow (for use only with BT bullets) CR sabots?

I ask as I have now shot slightly over fifty of the for use only with BT bullets, yellow CR sabots using the fallowing two loads:

<>LOAD #1-
{}290 grain TMZ(BT) knurled up to .454-.4545"
{}75 grains of RL10X
{}Fed 209A primer
{}Harvester Yellow CR sabot
{}MV should be around 2450fps
<>LOAD#2-
{}245 grain Spit Fire(BT) knurled up to .453-.4535"
{}76 grains of H-4198
{}Fed 209A primer
{}Harvester Yellow CR sabot and Knights factory non-CR Yellow sabot also made for Knight by Harvester
{}MV of around 2650fps

Both loads as you can see are near or at max for the bullet used and I have shot at least 25 of each using the Harvester Yellow CR sabot and as well as I can determine not once in at least 50 firings did I experience sabot failure of any degree when using the Harvester yellow CR sabot. I determined this through a combination of dozens of recovered sabots and consistently excellent accuracy at both 100 & 200yrds.

When next you speak with a rep FM Harvester, if you have not already, please ask them if indeed the two sabots in question are made of the same material, thickness and durability, as I would be quite interested in his response.

As I listed I have pushed them as about as hard as one can with in safe limits and have enjoyed excellent results.

Thanks for your report,
Arthur.

[boarhog]

Arthur,
I did not ask about a comparison with the yellow Cr. I only thought to ask if the Orange is a different plastic formula than the Red CR, and didn't think to ask about thickness differences. Allan did say that the petals of the Orange are thicker near the bullet base area, and that they are made of the same plastic.

[boarhog]

Richard,
I just re-read your question about "Nothing new for the .45?" You probably meant New from Harvester, instead of new with my .45? If that is your question, then no, they have nothing cooking for the .45. Allan said there didn't seem to be enough demand.

[deadon]

As stated in earlier post the harv yellow CR does not appear to be beveled in the bottom of the cup where the bullet seats. I had mearured the thickness of the pedal at 0.026. This morning I moved the mic all the way down to the bottom of the cup where the bullet seats and the thickness of the wall is 0.052. The orange sabot has a thicker wall up where it is groved but I never measured it at the bottom.If Art has any left, Maybe he can measure them.

[boarhog]

I do have 2 left, and I will measure them tomorrow.

[boarhog]

As Deadon suggested, I measured these Orange CR sabots.

Petal at tip-- .0295
Petal at base- .053
Cup depth--- .619
Petal cut depth--.375

[deadon]

Boarhog, The orange sabots should be ok for the boattails as well as the yellow CRs, correct?

[boarhog]

That is what Alan at Harvester said. Both Yellow and Orange are intended for boat tailed bullets. He was less assuring that they were for smokeless powder. He said the Orange has thicker petals than the yellow. The orange was very tight loading in my thumbhole 50. Perhaps too tight? I wonder if I was damaging the orange during loading? I got the test sabots in the mail today. They sent 30 yellows, and maybe the same number of orange. I also ordered a pack of Barnes 245 gr boat tails that come with their own yellow sabot. Hopefully, they will arrive before next weekend, and I'll get a chance to test them with the various sabots.