Range Report 4/17/2010-45 Pac-Nor & Thumbhole 50

[boarhog]

Saturday was a beautiful day for shooting. Partly cloudy ande 76°, with a slight breeze into our faces. It got gradually cooler, and more windy, as the afternoon progressed. I have done my best to learn how to properly size pix for posting like my Hero, Richard. Unless I accidently did it right this time, I still have a lot to learn.

I started shooting the 45 Pac-Nor with a few loads that had shot well a couple of range sessions back. Not bug-hole groups, but nicely rounded and plenty accurate for any shot I may take. I played with the scope enough to feel certain that the scope is OK and tracking well.

Target #1- 200 gr XTP, H BL sabot, 5/65 duplex N-110/N-120. AV-3004, ES-19, SD-8.
4= 1 3/8”, 5= 1 5/8”.

Target #2- 175 gr Barnes/Knight, H BL, 5/65 N-110/N-120, AV-3071, ES-48, SD-20.
5= 1 3/8”. The first two shots in this group were about 30-40 fps slower than the last three. Not much faster than the same powder load did above. I then used more seating pressure, and the speed increased. I am thinking that the 175 gr bullet needs a higher ratio of booster powder for optimum speeds.

Target #3- 195 gr Barnes/Knight, H BL, 12/56 N-110/N-130. AV-2820, ES-27, SD11.
Only had 4 loads. 3= 1 ¾”, 4= 2 1/8”

Next, I shot the 50 Thumbhole that has been so frustrating, firing several shots at various objects on the 200 yd. berm, testing different bullet/sabot combinations, with knurled bullets. After deciding which sabot to use, the next 5 so called groups were shot with either 44 gr A-5744, or a duplex of 6/56 N-110/H-4198. The bullets were 265 gr Harvester PT Gold, Hornady 225 gr FTX, and .458 300 gr Remington HP.

Target #4- 265 gr Harvester PT Gold- knurled, 44 gr A-5744, MMP-SB. AV-2081,
ES-17, SD-8. 3= 2 3/8”

Target #5- 225 gr Hornady FTX-knurled, 6/56 N-110/H-4198, MMP-SB. 3= 2 ¾”
I left my notebook at the shop so I don’t have the speed available now.

Target #6 ½ and #7- Same as above fiddling with the scope.

Target #8- 300 gr .458 Rem HP-knurled, Harv Blk CR, 6/56 N-110/H-4198. 3= 4 ¾”

I feel a lot better about this rifle now. If I can make my knurling more consistent, or perhaps get a properly sized After-Knurling die, I believe that I can get pretty good accuracy with it.

[Chris Champion]

boarhog,

That's looking better and good report. Have you ever tried straight H4198 58-62g in your 45 cal with the 195 Barnes or 200 SST? There are alot of us with the 45 pacnor that have shot this load and never looked back.

[boarhog]

Chris,
I have tried straight H-4198 with a few bullets. I'll have to go back through my notebook to say which ones, but I got pretty good accuracy with 60-62 of my old lot of powder. The new lot is hotter, and I have not yet re-visited single powder loads.

[deadon]

Robert WOW, I would be very happy with the pac nor and the thumbhole 50 seems to be coming around too You sure have worked at it I clicked on the pic and it did not enlarge , may be me

[mike.dawson]

If you see my previous post on range day. The 225FTX shot almost one hole for me with 58gr of N120 and the short black MMP sabot, I am not a duplex shooter and stick with a one powder load and that combo for me shot REALLY good

Mike

[dans]

I can speak to the 45 Pac Nor. Try 60 grains of H-4198, 195 Barnes MZ, CCI 209m primer, and the harvester SMOOTH BLUE SABOT. My rifle shoots this combo into 1 inch for 5 shots at 200 yards. Make sure the barrel is cool before taking the next shot.

[deadon]

Mike, any ignition problems with the N120? and how much seating pressure are you using with the 250 flex tip? Thanks Rusty

[mike.dawson]

None, I seat it as hard as I do all my loads. N120 is a very good powder for the Savage, Read all of Randy Wakemans post on his web site about N120. He has been recommending N120 to Savage as an approved powder for the gun for a while. A lot of shooters on this board shoot N120, it is my powder for deer hunting. You can use it with 300 gr. bullets as well as the 200-225gr bullets. I use the spinjag loader for all my bullets both in the Savage as well as my 45cal Knight Disc, you wont deform any tips with this loader. The hardest thing is finding it. PM me

Mike

[Richard]

Dans...........hows about showing us some of those 1" five shot 200 yard groups? Is this what your gun averages? Just curious how many other PN's are shooting five shot 1" 200 yard groups. Because if this is fact, I need to get another barrel
Richard

[Jed]

Have you had any experience with the terminal performance of the 225 gr. FTXs on game? Some people don't care for the terminal performance of the 250 gr SST/FTX, and I'm wondering how a bullet that is of the same construction yet 25 grains lighter (less SD) will perform on deer-sized game.

Or is your goal to have that be a varmint/plinking load?

[153]

Apr 21, 2010 15:13:01 GMT -5 Richard said:

Dans...........hows about showing us some of those 1" five shot 200 yard groups? Is this what your gun averages? Just curious how many other PN's are shooting five shot 1" 200 yard groups. Because if this is fact, I need to get another barrel
Richard

Richard it must be a NC thing. I average around 1" at 100 yards and 2-1/2" at 200 yards with my PacNor and I am very please with that. It is also very consistent never a flyer unless I call a flyer when I pull the trigger incorrectly.

[boarhog]

Deadon,
I didn't post this pix as an attachment. It won't enlarge like last week's. To make this one larger, hold down the CTRL key while rolling the mouse wheel away from you. To shrink roll it toward you.

Dans & MD,
I plan to try single powders in the 45 and 50 again. H-4198, N-120, and RE-7 are on the list. As are 4759, N-110, and 5744 in the 50. I started using duplexes to reduce the chance for cold weather bloopers, but noticed an increase in speed and a reduction in ES compared to single powders. I can't say that duplexes have been much more accurate, especially in the 50s, but then I have been battling them to get decent accuracy anyway.
BH

[Richard]

Boarhogs target!
Richard

[boarhog]

Now THAT is what I've been trying to do!

[deadon]

boarhog, I'm with you Wish I could do that

[boarhog]

Jed,
I just noticed your question about the 225 FTX. I am using them because I can buy them in hundreds for a cpl more dollars than I have to pay for 50 250s. I usually hunt deer with Barnes bullets in most of my rifles, and used the 300 gr BO to harvest the only one I've shot with the Savage ML, so far. I was very impressed with the performance of the 160 gr FTX, out of my 30-30, on a big doe. It broke big leg bone, and several ribs, and traversed appx 20" of deer before exiting. No blow-up, or shed jacket, with an impact velocity of around 2100 fps at 15 yds. I've had 240 and 300 gr XTPs shed pieces and penetrate less on deer shot with my Ruger Super Blackhawk, and 44 Carbine at slower speeds. I guess time will tell how well the FTX will perform at smokeless speeds. For now, I can shoot more for less $$ with them.

[herman]

Mike did you try above 58 grs of the N120 with the 225's?I saw apic of your group good shooting.
borhog,I am planning to try 59,60 and 69 grs with the 225's tuesday,calling for rain so may be another day,will pass along what I get.
I just got 200 of the short black mmp sabots,knurled to 507 with sabot.
As mike said N120 is a good powder for the 250's and 300's.
Below is one of my accidental targets with 69 grs of N120 and 250 sst.This is the reason I want to go to 69 grs with the 225's in the 50.

[boarhog]

That is fantastic! Looks like less than MOA!

[herman]

I tried the N120 with the 225 ftx today.I used the short black mmp sabot and put a little knurl on the ftx's.
The first shot was high so I dialed the scope down and only shot 2 with the 59 grs of N120 they were almost touching.So went to 60 grs of N120 and shot a 3 -shot group that went .687in.The speed on the 59 was 2322 fps and 60 gr was 2376 avg.
Next tried 69 grs of N120 and 3 shots went 1.336 in.at 2598.
Next I shot 2 shots useing the rcr sabot from haverster and it looked like it was going to be the same size group as the one with the mmps.
Was going to shoot some more but it started raining,richard and bill were finished so I packed up and left too.
I want to try a faster duplex and see what they do next.
These were shot out of my 50 cal savage.

[deadon]

Herman, How hard did they load? N120 always goes BOOM? I have been scrambling to find N110.

[herman]

They loaded the same as the sst's 250.I miked them at 507.N110 may be a good powder to try with the 225's too.

[boarhog]

Well, I have tried everything I know to try. Nothing I do changes the size of a pic, once I link it from Photobucket to this board. I need to talk to my puter gooroo about something else, so I'll see if he can show me what I'm doing wrong.

[minst7877]

I have been trying to figure out what boarhog is doing with his pics. He e-mailed me this one and I uploaded it to Photobucket and this is what I get when posting it without any changes.

[boarhog]

Testing 139

[boarhog]

Testing again


OK these last 2 tests were with med and large saves. I finally got the Image Resizer Richard sent to work, but it doesn't change anything about the size once it hits Photobucket. I have tried every way I can think of to get the resize tab in Photobucket to work, but it won't let me change anything. If the size shows 322 X 266, when I try to change the 322 to 640, as I type the 0 it changes back to 322. The problem has to be in Photobucket. Either the files get locked, or there is a bug in my version. I have looked at account setup over and over, and have found nothing that I can change that helps.
I am out of ideas.

I sent a question to Support at Photobucket. No response yet, but under their Suggestions page someone said something about larger sizing for Free Members. Richard said he doesn't pay, but perhaps the PB I downloaded is a later version, and if he does an update, he may be unable to enlarge pix also?

[boarhog]

Test 3+
OK I made certain I selected the IMG code that said Full Size!

[Richard]

Boarhog.........I do not do any sizing in Photobucket. I use that program I sent you and resize it first, then upload it to Photobucket.
Richard

[minst7877]

I have been able to use the resize in photobucket without problems. Some where we are missing a step. The one I posted did not have any changes from the way he sent it to me. I will go in and resize it and post it to see what happens.

DC

[minst7877]

here is a link to the original size pic It was 532 X 799



This one I re-sized to 400 x 640 which kept the proportions correct



Photobucket would not let me make it bigger than the original that Boarhog e-mailed me. Image link is checked for full size in photobucket. Make sure you scroll down to the bottom of the re-size page and click save a copy. This way it also keeps the original in its beginning form.

DC

[boarhog]

Ok, I have been playing with it at home on the laptop. Either the MS Image Resizer Richard uses doesn't like this puter, or it doesn't like the free Adobe Photoshop. When I rt click on a pix, a hand pops up, and it won't do anything. So I tried playing with Irfanview. It has all the same size choices so I was able to select 800 X 600 and saved it as a test pix. It also said the file size is 121 KB, and there is a DPI box that has 72 in it. I didn't know if that should be changed, so I left it as is.

I then did a normal upload to Photobucket. I clicked the resize tab, but didn't change anything. It said the size is 320 X 213, so I then copied and pasted the image code here. And,,,,,,,,


BTW, Deadon sent these sabots to me to try. They are a new, experimental, model Harvester Orange CR. I know you can't see the ribs, and the color looks yellow, but it isn't. If you will look closely, you will see that the petal slits do not go the full length of the petal. With a .452 bullet, they mic .5105-.511, and I plan to try them in the loose barrel Thumbhole 50. I'm about to push the Post button, so I guess we'll see if the pix sizes right!