BH 209

[petev]

For anyone that might be interested in trying Blackhorn 209 in the Savage MLII, I am reporting some results from this past week. I wanted to try Blackhorn because it is almost as clean as smokeless, is designed specifically for muzzleloaders, and because I had not gotten the consistency out of shooting smokeless that I wanted. After 2 shooting sessions, the Blackhorn performed well. I shot at 70 yards, just to get the feel of it. Using 4 different bullets, the 3 different types of saboted bullets shot about a 1" group each, whereas the Powerbelt grouped around 2" wide. The Powerbelt group was also about 5" higher than the other bullet types. So I had to sight in for either the Powerbelts or the saboted bullets, and the saboted bullets won. I can use all 3 types (SW, Hor 300 gr., Alpha Gold 300 gr.) interchangably up to that range, and I've specifically sighted in for the Hornadays. Anyway, the long and the short of is, that in the first session I averaged 8 min. betwee shots, and the second session, 5 with no fliers. No cooling rod was used. Recoil seemed similar to smokeless. The vent liner removed easily after shooting, and the barrel seemed to be dirty to a similar degree to that of AA5744. I used 100 gr. BH 209 for these first trials. Savage shooters who are trying to get the maximum performance out of the rifle would understandably not be interested in the results of this post. But to hunters and everyday shooters, they may want to consider trying this powder based on it's generating consistent results, allowing the use of Powerbelts, not heating the barrel and sabots as much as smokeless, probably not being as demanding of a heavy seating pressure when loading, and possibly being easier on scopes and vent liners. I still need to try it out some more and adjust things, but I like it so far.

[tim1jr]

Thanks for the info. I might have to try for curiosity. How much smoke was visible?

[bteague]

i had serious rust issues with bh209.billy

[deadon]

Keep us posted I tried the blackhorn in my disc elite and it was OK but the white hots were great ;D Only problem is I think I was the only rifleman on the planet that liked them Still TOO MUCH SMOKE Hence the ml10 ;D Just my two

[minst7877]

Due to state law (no smokeless powder allowed in my area) I used BH 209 in my Savage during last years season. Three deer shot all between 100 and 110 yards distance and none went more than 30 yards before expiring. Load was 300gr Rem HP orange MMP 110gr volume BH 209 started with a CCI 209m

DC

[deadon]

Minstr, What state do you live in with a BUMB law like that We need to go to the poles

[minst7877]

Southern half of Michigan does not allow smokeless powder in muzzleloaders during any deer seasons.

DC

[rjhans53]

FL doesn't allow it either during ML season. I hunt GA so it doesn't effect me, but for the life of me I don't see the big difference except I don't have to worry about cleaning my gun in the middle of the night after shooting a deer and getting it taken care of.

[youp50]

Whole state of Michigan only allows black powder or black powder substitutes, during ML season. Pretty sure New Jersey has the tough law, not allowing nitro-cellulose based powders.

Fairly certain these laws come from two points of view. The safety thing which we are well aware of and the 'traditional' guys that need to nap their own flint and mix their own powder, and think everyone else should, too.

[bluerock1]

Colorado only lets you use loose BP sub, iron sights and no sabots. I used 100gn BH209 (by volume) and Hornadys 300 grain FPB with great results.

BR1

[petev]

Yesterday I shot the following target at 100 yards using 3 different types of bullets, and 100 gr. Blackhorn 209, lying prone.



For each type of bullet the grouping was approximately 2.5 MOA. Shot #1 is basically a fouling shot. I had the rifle sighted in first most for the Hornadays (orange dots), both of which are in the black.
While the accuracy could use some improvement, I am very satisfied with the consistency. There was no waiting between shots, unless I walked to the target to have a look at the shots. No cooling rod used. Ignition was fine. I feel that the lack of accuracy was mostly due to my inconsistencies in holding the rifle, and actually trying not to get hit by it. I am encouraged enough to hold off shooting for now, but go ahead with moving the scope ahead a little more, and second to fit the new wood stock to the action and barrel. Then I'll re-sight in. I probably should try a couple of different loads at some point. My plan for hunting is to load with the Hornaday 300 hp, but carry both those and the alpha gold 300's that shoot almost the same POI, but are quick and easy to load. Ignition all year has been 100%. There have been no fliers yet with this powder, after 3 range sessions. Cleanup is the same as with smokeless. I would say that the smoke from firing is about 1/3 what FFG produces. It certainly is not bothersome, and disipates quickly. I am happy with this powder, and recommend it as a simple path to shooting this rifle.

[mike.dawson]

I find that BH 209 shoots fine out of my Savage, I am using 80gr. weighed, about 115 gr by volume, no issues with having to clean the bore between shots. I do let the gun cool off here in Fl as it gets as warm as smokeless does. It shoots the Barnes TMZ better than smokeless does with the supplied sabot

Mike

[petev]

Another note on this powder: after leaving my ml dirty from BH209 for over a month I cleaned it, and there was no rust or any problem. The barrel was filthy prior to cleaning.

[boarhog]

I am very interested in this thread, and have considered trying BH209 myself. You never know when the info might come in handy if I get a chance to hunt CO, or some other less enlightened State. I would like to see more data about speed, and also perhaps a comparison with the White Hots.

[rkrobson]

I've been using it for two years in CO with a 45 sabotless. 140 gr BH and Parker 275 BE will get 2300 fps, very accurate. In 50, for elk, 150 gr BH with the Thor 245, now you use 300 Thor as CO dropped the length requirement, and you'll get 2230 fps. Use tightest Thor and knurl the nose and your good to go. Ray

[dennisr]

When I bought my Savage, I lived in NC. But since then I moved to Michigan, which has some restrictions against smokeless in the muzzy.

I still shoot the Savage smokeless at the range, but when hunting I have been using another Knight muzzleloader with Pyrodex that I have had for many years now.

Recently though I bought a can of BH209 and I am planning on working up some loads with it. My thoughts are that I want to find some loads that have the same point of impact as some smokeless loads. (everything identical except for the powder)

In that way, I could practice at the range with smokeless (most likely AA5744) and then just switch to BH 209 when I hunt.

If I get some loads determined that shoot identically (smokeless vs. BH209), I will post them. I know all guns are different, but maybe this cross-reference would be useful to someone else on this board.

Dennis

[petev]

rk, when you use 150 gr. in the 50 cal., is your preference based on more power, or accuracy, or both? I have only used 100 gr. BH 209 so far, and was just curious. Thanks.

[deadon]

Dennis, What a great idea!!! I will be very interested in your results ;D

[rkrobson]

I wanted both, smokless speed and accuracy. In a 45, its very easy as the pressure builds quickly and I've shot the 300 Parker Hydracon at 2400 fps with BH. Bob Parker provides the knurled bullets to your guns liking, and will furnish a sample pack of different diameters to try. In the 50, Terry of Thor will provide a sample of 501 to 504 diameters to try. If you want to see if your gun will shoot them try 3 Pyrodex pellets, as these seem to slug up in the bore quickly and seal off. You must have a tight fit, not an "ok fit" but a "hard to push" down the bore fit. What I've been doing to compensate for this is to knurl the front of the bullet above the driving band to .502. I picked up this tip from someone on this board. I now have a Corbin knurler which allows for exact adjustment of size. Another 50 bullet I've shot well is the Parker 440 gr lead hydracon, Bob hardened these with antimony for me, hard to load, alot of recoil, but very accurate at 2200 fps, this is with 4 Pyro pellets, an approved load for my gun, Ray

[artjr338wm]

I have shot over 1 and half 10oz jugs of BH209 now out of my 209x50 Encore with excellent accuracy, actually the best groups I have ever shot with my 209x50 was with 120grns of BH209 and 300grn Harvester PT Golds. Consistently at or under 1" MOA at 100yrds.

That said I must also caution that BH209 will rust your barrel if you do not promptly clean it from your bore, or at the least as I do once done shooting for the day swab your bore with a good OTC rust inhibitor like Break-Free CLP.

Some may recall I posted a warning at the inline forum that my friends barrel rusted after he failed to promptly clean his bore after firing BH209 out of it. Despite this rust issue I still use and prefer BH209 for use in my 209x50 over any other BP sub, it's simply that much better IMHO than Pyrodex or 777, both BP subs I have shot 100s and in the case of Pyrodex 1000s of times prior to BH209.

I just felt I should make my fellow members of this board aware of BH209 potential to rust your bore if left fired and uncleaned in your barrel. I can not tell you how long it can be left after firing in your bore before it will rust, might be a few days or even longer if conditions are right, all I am saying is it rusted my friends barrel after being left uncleaned in his Encore while stored in his gun safe for no more than one or two weeks as i do not at this moment recall exactly how long it was it was he left his barrel uncleaned for 1 or 2 weeks at the most. All I am saying is if you are going to use it, keep a close watch on your barrel. BH209 IMHO performs just like smokeless EXCEPT for the rust part.

Arthur.