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Bedding
Jan 15, 2010 16:41:57 GMT -5
Post by deadon on Jan 15, 2010 16:41:57 GMT -5
Does anyone have any instructions or a link for bedding a ml ll with a synthetic stock. I was wondering if I could use auto body filler. I am pretty good with my hands but just need some advise. Thank you
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Bedding
Jan 15, 2010 18:15:56 GMT -5
Post by clayman on Jan 15, 2010 18:15:56 GMT -5
a couple of years ago i did mine.got bedding materal from brownells.i installed a ala. block in the stock where a clip would go and used the block to install a third pillar. not a big job. good inst. with brownells kit. clayman ps gun group moa.
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Bedding
Jan 15, 2010 19:03:59 GMT -5
Post by 10ga on Jan 15, 2010 19:03:59 GMT -5
I did my tupperware stock myself. Used JB weld. Available at the auto parts places in an Industrial pack, 2 tubes, 5 oz. each. Filled the Magazine well with crunched up packing peanuts, covered with a piece of corrugated paper box cut slightly oversize and pushed down on the peanuts to allow about 1/4 to 3/8" of bedding material over it. Roughed the plastic where it will receive bedding material with coarse sandpaper. Coated the action with Kiwi neutral shoepolish. Wrapped the barrel with a donut of electrical tape to keep it off the stock and make sure it was floating. Taped the edge of the recoil lug. Taped the stock as if to keep paint where you don't want it but the blue painters tape will keep epoxy off too. Then mixed the JB, about 1/2 of the volume of the tubes, with couple of table spoons of wood flour (sifted from the table saw bin) until the consistency of peanut butter. Apply JB mix to the bedding areas thickly. Insert treated barrel/action and use electrical tape wrapped completly around several times in several places to hold barrel and action firmly in place. Get the epoxy that squirts out off with a stick or plastic implement, I use plastic knives. Allow JB to cure for 90 min. to 1 hour and JB will not move. Remove "blue tape" now as when the epoxy is fully cured it is REALLY HARD. Allow to fully cure, 12 to 36 hours depending on temp. Pop barrel and action out. Remove tape from barrel and edge of recoil lug. Use a emery board from wife and/or girlfriend manicure kit to "sand" edges smooth where necessary. Explain to wife and/or girlfriend how valuable their assistance has been. Drink a beer and admire your handiwork. Put action back in stock and tighten action screws. Go to the range tomorrow and try it out.
I'm sure someone will post a link to more, better and bigger information but that is the short story. My ML II shoots like a house afire with .458 boolits and orange sabots in front of 42 gr 4759.
Everyone feel free to add, subtract, multiply and divide from this Q&D explanation.
I would use Devcon but I'd have to order it and the JB is available at the auto parts store walkin.
Do some searches on Devcon, bedding, tuperware and etc... All this info is here on the board. Some with pictures etc...
Best, 10 ga
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Bedding
Jan 15, 2010 20:28:33 GMT -5
Post by youp50 on Jan 15, 2010 20:28:33 GMT -5
Shy away from auto body filler. The best choice for off the self stuff would be JB Weld. Quite a few have used it with success.
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Bedding
Jan 15, 2010 20:49:29 GMT -5
Post by Richard on Jan 15, 2010 20:49:29 GMT -5
Definitely stay away from the body filler. It does not get hard enough and has too much give to it. Also, stay away from putting "wood dust" in the epoxy. Most of the better epoxies such as Devcon F and Marine-Tex have steel or aluminum "dust" in them. Also, their shrink rate is is under a tenth of one percent. The wood/saw dust will compromise this figure. When you bed, you want the finished product to mimic the action after it cures. If the product shrinks, you loose the tight fit. I'm not saying that "10 ga." gun does not shoot. I'm just saying his method is not what a professional gunsmith would use....and for good reason. Obviously, a gun that does not shoot well, will benefit from most any type of bedding. You will find that epoxies that take upwards of say 12 to 24 hours to cure will have the least amount of shrinkage. For that reason, I do not use J-B. It does work much better than most over the counter epoxies. Richard
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Bedding
Jan 15, 2010 22:19:35 GMT -5
Post by DHinMN on Jan 15, 2010 22:19:35 GMT -5
A lot has been written on glass bedding a rifle and I'm surprised that a set of directions or at least advice has not been put in the tips and hints section. But probably the reason is, that everybody does it a little different and some time there has been some real debates about the finer points of how to do it. I've done all my own rifles with glass bedding kits like from Brownells. When I did my Savage I mixed Aluminum dust in it. Also did the third pillar at that time. With a Kit at least you would have a set of directions. The exception was the last one I did on my .22 cal. rifle. It didn't fit in the stock quite right and I thought a little glass bedding would do the trick. So this time I used an off the shelf product I had called PC-7. It is a two part epoxy gell that takes a long time to set up. It took about 10 hours for me and let it cure for about 5 to 7 days. You take it out of the stock when you see that it is hard, in about 10 to 12 hours just to make sure you get it apart. It got absolutely rock hard. The thing is there is a lot of details involved and opinions vary widely. I'm not sure I've done two exactly the same way. I tried to do a search for some of the posts on the subject but didn't come up with anything useful. I have an idea the debate will start again.
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Bedding
Jan 16, 2010 0:22:35 GMT -5
Post by cuda on Jan 16, 2010 0:22:35 GMT -5
You can use body filler to fill the mag hole and leave room on top for bedding. Just so you do not have to fill it with bedding compound right or wrong? And with JB weld if you warm it with a light bulb it will flow and set up better. And cure faster than just at room temp. I have fixed a lot of things with JB from chain cases to valve covers. I am trying to get the nerve to bed mine.
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Bedding
Jan 16, 2010 0:46:26 GMT -5
Post by davidfoor on Jan 16, 2010 0:46:26 GMT -5
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Bedding
Jan 16, 2010 9:11:09 GMT -5
Post by whyohe on Jan 16, 2010 9:11:09 GMT -5
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Bedding
Jan 16, 2010 10:37:28 GMT -5
Post by deadon on Jan 16, 2010 10:37:28 GMT -5
I really started something but I like it. Never to old to learn. Thank you all!!!
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Bedding
Jan 16, 2010 17:34:21 GMT -5
Post by 10ga on Jan 16, 2010 17:34:21 GMT -5
I have used about every kind of epoxy out there to fix something. I used Marine-tex back in the 70s to fix boats and make turkey calls. I have NEVER had a failure when using wood flour in good epoxy. I have had failures when using AL or FE "dust" in the epoxy. Most of my applications have been marine related and bedding an action is relativly simple compared to catastrophic failure in the marine/boat/fishing industry. Polyester resin is NOT water proof at the molecular level, avoid at all cost. Epoxy IS waterproof at the molecular level, that is the stuff to use. The wood flour is saturated with the epoxy and the wood does not fluctuate with changes in humidity even up to saturation. That is why the epoxy gets stiff when you add the wood flour. It is absorbed by the wood. I have found that various epoxys get brittle when used with AL or FE "dust". If you don't want to use wood flour I suggest you go to one of the marine supply houses and use chopped kevlar fiber. It is very fine and makes about the strongest cured epoxy available. Try West Marine or Jamestown for your chopped kevlar fiber. I found information before on bedding and when I find it again I'll post the link. Best to all, 10 ga www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html
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Bedding
Jan 16, 2010 22:17:17 GMT -5
Post by Richard on Jan 16, 2010 22:17:17 GMT -5
No where in that article on 6mmbr.com is the word "wood flour or kevlar fiber used?" We could get into a deeper discussion on this issue however by adding anything (other than non-compressible material such as steel or aluminum filings) to the epoxy mix, a degree is compression or shrinkage is possible. I'll stick by using my Epoxy "straight up!" Richard
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Bedding
Jan 16, 2010 23:50:46 GMT -5
Post by DHinMN on Jan 16, 2010 23:50:46 GMT -5
Opps. There it was in tips and hints all the time. I was looking in the wrong place. But I thought that the web sites that davidfoor and 10ga offered was quite informative. I used Aluminum powder when I did the Savage because it was one of the recomendations by Brownells. The first one I ever did many years ago had a packet of chopped up fiber glass in the kit to mix in with the epoxy. I think if a person read all this and can follow directions and with a little courage should be able to handle the task.
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Bedding
Jan 17, 2010 0:06:05 GMT -5
Post by davidfoor on Jan 17, 2010 0:06:05 GMT -5
If the "Correct" bedding compound is used nothing needs to be added. If I were to add anything it sure would not be a material softer that the compound I was using.
If the epoxy gets brittle when AL or FE dust is added, the wrong epoxy was chosen. Material is added to epoxy to make it stronger, wood would make it weaker.
The epoxy may penetrate the wood flour, but the wood is still there and any exposed wood flour that wasn't completely encased in the epoxy would have to potential to hold moisture.
I have never seen any instructions for firearm bedding that said to add wood to the bedding compound.
One thing is for sure, this isn't about fixing boats!
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Bedding
Jan 17, 2010 9:13:57 GMT -5
Post by deadon on Jan 17, 2010 9:13:57 GMT -5
Thank you all very much for the help. I think when 10 ga mentioned boats he was referring to his many years using marine tex , it is an epoxy and a very good one, you can even drill and tap it.
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Bedding
Jan 17, 2010 9:26:42 GMT -5
Post by Richard on Jan 17, 2010 9:26:42 GMT -5
Amen! Davidfoor! I have rubbed shoulders with and am friends with a number of the benchrest communities top gunsmiths and no one I know uses any addditives in their epoxies. Devcon and Marine Tex being the most commonly used. Richard
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Bedding
Jan 17, 2010 9:40:52 GMT -5
Post by youp50 on Jan 17, 2010 9:40:52 GMT -5
Devcon makes many different epoxies for many different applications. The Plastic Steel 10110 is probably the best choice for bedding firearms.
PS In the Devcon line.
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