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Post by olegburn on Jan 10, 2010 21:20:13 GMT -5
We were in low temperatures lately here in Ohio,but nevertheless I went to shoot couple times last week. Second time out H4198 failed to ignite. Bullet/sabot fit was good. Only thing diff. was I was out of Winch.primers and used CCI shotshell primers.Blue and gray box with yellow lettering. Primer was going off and no ignition. Checked to reset bullet-it didn't move. Secon primer set it off OK. Next shot-same.Load goes off on second primer. Every load I shot needed 2 primers to shoot  Any ideas on what can be wrong? Temp. was same as couple days before with only diff. I could see different primers. Loaded with IMR4759-shoots fine. Am I having a case of defective primers or CCI's .are not hot enough for H4198? Are H4198 hard to ignite in general? Temp. sensitive? Thanks! olegburn |
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nic58
8 Pointer
Posts: 237
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Post by nic58 on Jan 10, 2010 21:31:35 GMT -5
Provided that your breechplug was drilled out recently and your sabot to barrel fit was tight, the only thing that might have benefited you would have been to use a mag primer like the CCI 209M.
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Post by smokeeter on Jan 10, 2010 21:37:03 GMT -5
that's odd, the cci's are usually hotter that the winnies, are they cci mag primers. that might be the prob. try fed 209a's never had a problem with them and H4198
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Post by olegburn on Jan 10, 2010 21:39:08 GMT -5
nic58,
after first shot(that was set-off by secon primer) I pulled the plug out and checked for possibly clogged channel and it was fine.
Ventline was homemade (Thanks to smokeless77) with correct diameter hole,which really shouldn't be an issue as it was same VL I used 2 days before that.
I tried to find primer comparison chart but could not.
Again IMR4759 was shooting Ok with same CCI primers.
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Post by olegburn on Jan 10, 2010 21:43:22 GMT -5
smokeeter,
I dug in my cabinet few minutes ago and found another box of CCI's and that box is different colors and says 209M on it.
One I had problems with on Friday was regular CCI's box,not 209M's.
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nic58
8 Pointer
Posts: 237
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Post by nic58 on Jan 10, 2010 22:25:01 GMT -5
I would give the CCI 209M's a try then since you found some. It's always a good idea to use a mag primer in cold conditions especially with N120 and H4198. The mag primer is just good insurance with any powder when cold weather is involved. Hope you get things solved!
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Post by pcgolfer on Jan 10, 2010 22:29:47 GMT -5
I am honestly not a 5744 saleman, but I have never had it not go off. This last week, I loaded it in 71 degrees ... sat out in a field at -7 and shot it at the end of the day. I have a box of 1000 CCI M primers, but am intentionally not shooting them I am switching all types of primers, just to see the difference. It fires every time. Does anybody have any troubles igniting 5744
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Post by tar12 on Jan 10, 2010 23:30:58 GMT -5
I had posted a primer chart on the old board but could not find it,but the Fed 209A was the hottest followed by the CCI 209M.
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Post by olegburn on Jan 11, 2010 1:07:49 GMT -5
Tar12-I enjoy reading your posts and from pics I see you hunt in same conditions(cold ones  Do you also think that my problem is primers? Powder can is fresh,open few weeks ago. Stored in pretty dry basement. |
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Post by youp50 on Jan 11, 2010 5:45:52 GMT -5
I have had trouble getting the H 4198 to consistently ignite. I went to the duplex for that reason.
You have left out a couple of bits of information. How heavy is the bullet and what is your charge weight. Someplace around here RB posted about minimum charges and bullet weights for the H 4198. The crux of his post, which by my experience is dead on, was that h4198 in a 50 is extremely sensitive to low pressure.
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Post by tar12 on Jan 11, 2010 6:58:30 GMT -5
Tar12-I enjoy reading your posts and from pics I see you hunt in same conditions(cold ones Do you also think that my problem is primers? Powder can is fresh,open few weeks ago. Stored in pretty dry basement. It is a distinct possibility.I have not cold weather tested 4198 but I have both versions on hand and will be doing so shortly.I can tell you this..I have had cheddite,win. and plain CCI primers to fail to ignite charges over the years but I have never had the Fed 209As fail... |
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Post by olegburn on Jan 11, 2010 9:24:23 GMT -5
youp50,
bullet was 300gr.Remington .458HP in a Harvester Crush Rib sabot (my barrel on a loose side-orange MMP's are not tigh enough) and fairly hard to seat. Takes some effort to do that.
tar12,this is a first year I use H4198,
AA5744 and IMR4759 never gave me problems with any primers including Remingt. which I hear are mild.
The only misfires I ever had was with loose bullet/sabot combos.
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Post by tar12 on Jan 11, 2010 13:04:38 GMT -5
Olegburn,
It sounds as if your combo is right/tight.That does not leave room for any other explanation, other than the seating pressure is not enough..
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Post by Chris Champion on Jan 11, 2010 19:15:21 GMT -5
olegburn,
Maybe I missed it but how many grains of H4198 were you using? I have shot 67g of H4198 with the 300g .458 BO and HBCR sabot when temps were in the low teens and never had an ignition issue. This load only shot about 40 fps slower in the teens then it did when the temp was around 50 degrees.
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Post by Richard on Jan 11, 2010 21:37:59 GMT -5
olegburn.........Here are my two suggestions:
Kick that load of 4198 with a little 5744 or N-110 (as in duplex) Depending on your level of pain, the 10/60 duplex I shoot (10 gr. of N-110 under 60 gr. 0f H-4198) and 2465 fps should give you no ignition problem along with a tight fitting bullet/sabot.
The second suggestion would be to have your breech plug modified (recessed) to put the flame closer to the charge. With my recessed plug, the 10 gr. of N-110 fills up the recess to the top. This really segregates the two charges AND puts the flame close to the fast burning powder.
Richard
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