Scope spec's

[messmer302]

I am going to change the scope on my 10ml due to a couple different reasons
and I have a few quick questions?
Is there a benefit to having a 30mm vs a 1in tube?
Is there a rating for how much extra light you get from a scope as far as shooting at dusk or dawn? (Nikon's monarch description says "maximum light transmission up to 95%")
As far as a 10ml goes should I stay away from an Adjustable Objective? Does it matter if the AO adjustment is either on the front bell or a side focus?
I'm Looking for a scope that will hold up to a 10ml, let me see at dusk & dawn clearly, not mind being bumped now and than, power should be
something X 12-16 X 40-44mm any suggestions?
Using a Bushnell 3200 3-10SA currently and don't like the SA part of it and it keeps moving in the rings so going to get better rings and want something with a little more power. also this year i couldn't see good enough at dusk and had to let a few walk and on the buck couldn't make out the rack good enough
Thanks
Messmer

[rossman40]

As far as the 30mm tubes, they are usually stronger and more grip area for the ring. Performance wise a lot of the no difference answers is from Leupolds early attempt when they first brought out their line of 30mm tubes and didn't tell anybody that all the internal parts were from the 1" models. Shooters were going "I don't see a difference" and all the gun writers were saying how great it was. A well engineered 30mm scope will outperform a 1", slightly, at least IMO.

As far as adjustable objective, one more thing to break. Side focus seems to be stronger but that may also depend on design. As more side focus models get put on 10MLs we will see.

As far as rings it is tough to beat Burris Signature Zees, specially 30mm models. Maybe followed by Burris XTRs and the new Weaver Tacticals.

IMO if you want low light performance you have to step up to a 50-56mm objective. And then if you can not see your crosshairs your still screwed. So a good low light scope will also have a illuminated reticle or dot. You will also not usually see high magnification

As far as models I would put the Rossman "worth a look" stamp on,,,

Economy (<$200)
Vortex Crossfire 4-16x50, 30mm tube, AO on the objective bell, illuminated reticle. Bit shy on eye relief, seems a bit like a Tasco till you look thru it, thumbs up on glass quality. This is the second generation Crossfire, the question is will it stand up to 10ML recoil. If not it has the Vortex VIP warranty, if it breaks regardless if it is even your fault they will fix it and I have heard nothing bad about their customer service.

Mid-range ($500-600)
Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10x50 30mm tube, no AO, low hunter style capped turrents, #4 reticle with a illuminated dot. Better lenses then your 3200 and has the Rainguard.

Burris 3.5-10x50 Fullfield 30 European, 30mm tube with low hunter style capped turrents, no AO. Available with the illuminated LRS ballistic reticle.

Weaver Classic Extreme 2.5-10X50 and 56, I own one of these, 30mm tube with low capped turrents, illuminated dot, side focus. The 50mm is a bit more compact then the 56mm, excellent eye relief. You might not be able to find one for the bargain <$300 but still out there for around $500. With snow on the ground and a fair moon it is like using a night scope.

Upper (>$600)
Trijicon Accu-Point 2.5-10x56, 30mm tube, no AO, low capped turrents, big choice of illuminated reticles and no batteries required. Good glass, decent eye relief at lower magnification but goes away fast as you up the magnification.

Sightron SIII 3.5-10x56, 30mm tube, side focus, tall capped turrents, illuminated #4 reticle. Great glass!

Zeiss Conquest, some great big tube big glass models but no illuminated reticles.

Nikon Monarch Gold 2.5-10x50, 30mm tube, side focus but like Zeiss no illuminated reticles.

Leupold, if your a believer in the golden ring they do have some decent VX-3 models but rate low on the value meter, the previous 4 rate higher IMO.

In the future Vortex will show off the Viper PST at the SHOT show with deliveries slated for April. Supposedly the PST line puts the MK IVs in the dust at half the price. A bit more tactical oriented but a 4-16X50 with a FFP illuminated reticle, side focus and 30mm tube for less then $900 is a buy in my book. Supposedly the Viper PST will have better glass and improvements over the current Viper line.

[deadeye]

sounds like your at the crossroads of wanting to put a very durable tough scope w/great glass. my suggestion is the burris xtr tactical, i have 3 & all have withstood the stout loads of the ml2,not blown any sf's yet & probably wont. glass is exceptional & you can easily shoot till legal hours & beyond. mine are 3x12x50//30mm,they offer a 6x24x50///30mm. not what i consider a true target scope but more like a true hunting tactical scope & no-mine are not for sale-ever,if you should have a problem burris is in the usa for most models. you will be shelling out $850 or so but it will be an investment.that should answer all your questions in a round about way! good luck!

[ttracer9]

I had a scope with an adjustable objective on it and found that it was more of a pain than what it was worth whike hunting. No time to adjust it on quick shots. In my opinion a 30mm scope without the AO or side focus is your best bet for hunting.

[boarhog]

I have a Weaver Classic Extreme w/56mm obj. The jury is still out for me on this scope. I haven't hunted with it enough to form a complete opinion.

PROS: Good glass. Bright and clear.
Lighted reticle with briteness adj.
Tracks well. Definite clicks, and you can index the turret to 0 after sighting in.
Decent eye relief.
Side focus

CONS: Heavy as lead.
Side focus.

Yes, I listed "Side focus" as both PRO and CON. It does help me dial in focus for my old eyes, but I have noticed it is subject to get bumped off of where I set it when I get settled into my stand. I don't know that it would cause me to miss a deer if I have to shoot quickly, but it is worrysome. And as far as the weight is concerned, it puts the Savage ML well beyond the weight I consider useful as an all around hunting rifle, especially for use in rugged terrain. Generally, I like the Weaver, but if I needed to carry more over hill and dale, and sit on stands less, I probably would swap the Weaver for a Nikon Omega.

[deadeye]

sf in the field is not generally need unless going extra long if you no what i mean,sf is extra nice on the bench to fine tune those loads/groups. note- jmho/cons-if it is heavy you probably have quality,it is well worth it to me.

[boarhog]

I got the new Natchez Shooters Jan flier today. It lists the Bushnell 4200 @ $299.00. Sounds like a pretty good deal.

[sagittarius]

My Burris XTR 3-12X50 has been awesome so far; my next scope will be the same.
See my avatar.

[sw]

Jan 6, 2010 20:01:20 GMT -5 boarhog said:

I got the new Natchez Shooters Jan flier today. It lists the Bushnell 4200 @ $299.00. Sounds like a pretty good deal.

I have a Bushnell 4200 2.5X10 and 2 50mm and 2 56 mm WCEs. No comparison as far as a low light scope IMO. I was going to put the 4200(mainly due to size) on my Strikeforce x-bow when I get the new HHA dial-a-range but will instead use the 50mm WCE that is currently on my other x-bow(our "low light x-bow " for now). The optical advantage of the WCE is worth to me the extra size and weight. The 4200 is extremely good, IMO.

[KerryB]

There is some excellent advice here. I will join the Weaver Classic Extreme 2.5-10x56mm camp since i now own several of them and have had plenty of time using them on from the bench as well as dawn and dusk deer hunting. They are absolutely the brightest scopes i have ever looked through and they really are almost like night vision scopes. The combination of 56mm objective, 30mm tube, outstanding glass, and excellent coatings make this scope phenomenally bright. They are also unusually sharp optically for a scope in this price class. I haven't had any issues with the side focus and in my opinion it is far superior to bell mounted objective adjustments. If you don't like the idea of having to adjust the objective all the time, just set it to 100yds and leave it there. Most modern scopes without adjustable objectives are set for 100yds anyway and it really doesn't affect hunting accuracy. One of the main things i like about the WCE is the lighted dot at the center of the non-lit reticle. It adjusts low enough in intensity that you can use it in total darkness without overwhelming the optical image or blinding you. Yes, the WCE 56mm is a little on the heavy side and it is a little on the large side, but if you want quality of this magnitude, then i think you will be happy to overlook this minor disadvantage. I currently own many Leupold, Sightron, Burris, Redfield, Hawk, and other brand scopes, but these WCE's are without a doubt the best i own for anywhere near the price. Just an interesting side note............i had a Bushnell Banner 6-24x50 scope on one of my 10MLII's for many years with no problems. I changed it out for one of the WCE 56mm scopes and decided to mount the old Bushnell on my RWS Diana 54 in .22 caliber. Guess what? The RWS destroyed it on the first shot! The power adjustment ring locked up and i could hear something rattling inside. I called Bushnell customer service and explained what had happened. They said it should hold up to airgun use and to send it back for repair. They replaced it with no problem, but i won't be putting it back on an air rifle! ;D

[messmer302]

As far as the Weaver Classic Extreme 2.5-10x56mm goes is there any kind of factory warranty
Does anybody have one of them mounted on a 10ml that can send me a pic (from the side) the 56mm sounds a little tall for me
Thanks
Messmer
send me a pm if you can send me a pic

[sw]

:)An addendum to Kerry's post. I owned a Nightforce 3.5X15 56mm scope and sold it after a couple of years due to it's weight(to Kevin Rayhill). I've missed it ever since. I've used a Leupold Var-X3 4.5X14 50mm(an excellent scope), Bushnell 6X24 40 mm 4200 and a 2.5X10 40mm 4200, 2 3200s(3X9 and 2X7) and 3 Sightron 2 42mm 3X12 md scopes over the past # of years. Then I got a WCE 50mm and felt like I got my Nightforce back but minus some of the weight. Then another and 2 56mm versions. My son and I use one each on our 45 and 40 PacNors, a 50 on my x-bow(next year the 50 on a HHA dial-a-range on my Strikeforce), and a 56 on my 22-250 AK IMP 8 twist. If there is even 50% moon and the moon is above the horizon, I could deer hunt all night with the x-bow and the WCE.
Yes, the WCE is a bit imposing on the x-bow but the optics are worth it to me. If I had another, I'd put it on my 17 HMR Marlin for coyotes/foxes. I may take the one on my 40 cal just to do that for now. When the 4200s and Leupold Var-x 3s and especially the Sightrons become like lower class scopes compared to the WCEs, then that says something. If only I could have gotten 1-2 more

OOPs!! I forgot that most of what's in this post has just recently been posted - by me. Maybe I'm getting older.

[boarhog]

Messmer302,
This isn't a very good pix of the WEC scope. Tomorrow, I can take a better closeup. This scope has the 56 mm Obj Bell.
boarhog

[deadeye]

i am jealous,not been able to look through one of wce's,too bad they are not available in mil-dot or moa reticle,question to wce owner's-due they proof out??(elevation& windage wise)1/4 or 1/8 click's .tia

[olsmokey]

Hey Rossman, If you don't mind my asking, where do you get the Vortex for around 200. Always wanted to try one. thanks Dave

[deadon]

For light gathering you cant beat a Nikon. I have owned scopes with both side and front ajustable IO and the side is by far more user friendly but I am also getting away from them because when hunting .most of the time there IS NO TIME. Just my two.

[rossman40]

Bushnell 3200 3-9X40 and a 2.5-10X56 WCE. My hunting buddies nick named it "The Hubble".



One trick I have learned is if you feel the Weaver medallion on the side focus and it is level it is set for 100yds.


Smokey, SWFA has the 4-16X50 30mm tube Crossfire with a Illuminated mil-dot and taller target turrents for $209.95
The 4-16X50 30mm tube Crossfire with the illuminated wide v-plex and the lower turrents is $199.95. If you buy a Crossfire make sure it is the newer one with the 30MM tube. Supposedly they are closing out most of the 1" Crossfires and they are selling them cheap but it seems the newer 30mm tube Crossfires are a lot better scope and well worth the extra $100.

Boarhog, they didn't send me my flyer (at least yet). If it is the 4200 2.5-10X50 with 30mm tube and illuminated reticle at $299 that is a deal.

[boarhog]

rossman,
I left the flier at the shop, but I will look again tomorrow. I know it was the 4200, but not sure about 30mm tube or lighted reticle.

[rexxer]

I have the WCE in the 2.5x10x50

For the money it would be hard to beat. It also has very good eye relief which was important to me. Like everyone else has said ,clear,excellent low light,and warranty!

It might be a little heavy but with what the Savage weighs its almost a mute point for a stand hunter.

[boarhog]

Rossman,
I checked the Natchez flier today. The Bushnell 4200 that is listed @ $299.95 is the 2.5-10 X 40 in silver. All the other models say POR. The Weaver Grand Slam 3.5-10 X 50 in silver or black is listed @ $319.95. I wonder how the Grand Slam compares to the Classic Extreme?
Boarhog

[deadeye]

bump// i was not kidding-do the wce's proof a square & or seem close,1/8 or 1/4 clicks//tia

[rossman40]

Deadeye, I have not did a box test with mine but they do seem to track true, 4 clicks is one inch.

The Grand Slam was a step below the Classic Extreme, or maybe the more correct term would be the old design as it came out in the 90s and was Weavers attempt to get back into the upper end scopes. A lot of models had this funky rubberized coating on the AO and the wide mag knob which sure didn't help the sex appeal. Pretty decent glass for the money and back in the day would go up well against a Vari-X II except for eye relief. Later models seemed to have even better glass. The Super Slam is the model that replaced the Classic Extreme but had different turrents, 5X erector, argon filled but dropped illuminated reticles and went back to 1" tubes. I was just told that Weaver has realized they screwed the pooch by dropping the Classic Extreme and several 30mm tube Super Slam models with illuminated reticles will be shown at the SHOT show along with the new Buck Commander line of scopes which has their newest version of a ballistic reticle. The Buck Commanders are some of the same guys/family from the Duck Commanders TV show which is sponsored by ATK/Federal and now that Weaver is part of the ATK family,, oh well...

[smokeless77]

rossman40, The buck comander 3-12x50 dual x matte has a price of $ 233.77. do you think they will be as good as the classic extreme.

[rossman40]

I think they will be closer to the say a Bushnell 3200. I haven't seen one yet but it will be interesting to see if it is a Phillipine made scope (like the 40/44) or Chinese. The 40/44 isn't that bad of a scope, I think they just folded the Intensity line into Weaver branded as the 40/44, the scope reminds me of some of the old Simmons which weren't that awful for a lower end scope.

[smokeless77]

Thank's rossman Maybe I'll wait it out for a while to see how it makes out.

[blacksavage]

what is your guys feelings towards Swift scopes.
I have always found them to be a darn good scope for the money and realy clear.
I currently have three of there older 3x9s one on a 30-06, another on a .257 roberts and the last on my 12gauge deerslayer.
i see they came out with a new premier line and am thinking about getting a 4x12 for my muzzleloader

[rossman40]

Swift scopes are a decent value lower end scope. The problem I always had with Swift in the old days was inconsistency in production and design. You could buy a 3-9X40 and be a decent scope but if you bought a 2-7X40 eye relief was like half, quality was less and made you think it couldn't have come from the same company. They have came thru a recent bankruptcy and the sport optics divsion is now a stand alone company away from the microscopes and weather instruments and I do not see the big telescopes offered anymore. They used to import from Korea, that is where most of the binos come from (higher end are Japanese) and they do make some nice binos. The Korean plant even made binos for Leupold. They have stepped up with a 30mm tube line but those are not cheap and makes me wonder if they are coming from the Philippines or Japan. My biggest concern is if they would stand up to the recoil on a 10ML. Some of their higher magnification models look good at short range but looses clarity and contrast at longer ranges.