|
Dilemma
Jan 3, 2010 20:31:44 GMT -5
Post by midohhntr on Jan 3, 2010 20:31:44 GMT -5
Out of frustration with the Savage I shot my CVA optima the other day and shot a 1 1/4" 100 yd group using 110 gns of blackhorn 209 and 250 hornady sst's and hph24 sabots with a 5 lbs + trigger and bsa scope. The Savage, well I'm trying a different sabot and bullet combo, trying to steer away from the barnes t-ez's because of cost. I used a harvester red c/r and there 260 pt gold with 41 gns of sr4759, trigger @ 3 1/2 lbs and Bushnell scope and the best I get is 1 3/4 -2" or more. Tried the hornady and hph combo which is a tighter fit in the Savage and it did worse. I tried some hph12 with the sst and could hardly get it down the barrel. The red c/r and pt gold is a tight fit that i can live with. I'm tempted to use the optima next weekend and leave the Savage sit till I can figure it out. Oh, and I dry patch after every shot with both guns.
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 3, 2010 21:50:39 GMT -5
Post by grouse on Jan 3, 2010 21:50:39 GMT -5
Put the BH209 in your Savage and you will put the CVA away. BTW- If the 250grn SST with the HPH12 sabots is to tight in the Savage, replace them with the HPH24. I would use the short blacks if you have them.
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 3, 2010 21:53:06 GMT -5
Post by tar12 on Jan 3, 2010 21:53:06 GMT -5
Try the SSTs or 250 grn XTPs with the RCR and see what that gets you.These guns can be fickle at times but once you figure out what IT wants to shoot,life is good..
|
|
|
Post by midohhntr on Jan 4, 2010 8:08:34 GMT -5
Going to try knurling the sst's and pt golds and using them with the hph24 and see what i get.
|
|
|
Post by mountainam on Jan 4, 2010 8:25:57 GMT -5
You didn't say whether your Sav is blue or SS. My Blue 10ML shoots hole toughing groups at 100yds using Rem. .458" 300 HPs: 68gr Rx7 and either MMP orange or Harvester black crushed ribbed sabots. Under 3/4" @ 2350 fps. If you have a SS they tend to have a larger bore and the orange sabots may not group as tight for you. You have the rest of the week to figure it out. I know exactly how you feel. You're looking for answers and the consensus seems to be to pitch your barrel, trigger and stock for an upgrade. Good Hunting!
|
|
|
Post by tim1jr on Jan 4, 2010 9:04:06 GMT -5
I know alot of people advise against it, but I use Hornady low drag sabots with the 300 gr SST and 42 gr 4759. And at 100 yards I can clover leaf the shots. The bore on my Savage is like yours extremely tight. This year I got a button Buck at 70 yrds, and last year a friend got a doe(head shot) at 178 yards (lasered) with the same load.
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 4, 2010 11:03:37 GMT -5
Post by midohhntr on Jan 4, 2010 11:03:37 GMT -5
I have a s/s model. Shot some this am., frankly the harvesters stink. Just for kicks I got the bathroom scales out to see what kind of pressure I was using. The pt gold did not fit the base of the hph24 well so I didn't try it. Shot the knurled sst's first, took about 65-75 lbs to get it down and seat. first two looked good about 1'' apart. Third hit low about 2". Tried the pt gold with red c/r, first used about 50-60 lbs then 60-70 lbs, either the sabot's are inconsistent or the bullet dia. These shot 4" high and about 5" apart. I tried 2 sst's without knurling and hph24, used about 50-55 lbs both times, two shots 1 1/2" apart. ;D All loads I used 41 grns of sr4759 and I dry patched after every shot, one pass in, one out. Thanks to all who replied, if anything I'm having some fun.
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 4, 2010 11:10:56 GMT -5
Post by mike3132 on Jan 4, 2010 11:10:56 GMT -5
Try a little more powder. 42-43 seem to work real good with 250 grain bullets. You want about 30-35 lbs of seating pressure for good accuracy. Try Harvesters short black sabot and see how it works. Ive got one gun that has a real tight barrel and the short black sabot using XTP's are the right resistance. Don't give up cause when you get the right combo the CVA will stay home in the closet. Mike
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 4, 2010 16:48:38 GMT -5
Post by jeff on Jan 4, 2010 16:48:38 GMT -5
Out of frustration with the Savage I shot my CVA optima the other day and shot a 1 1/4" 100 yd group using 110 gns of blackhorn 209 and 250 hornady sst's and hph24 sabots with a 5 lbs + trigger and bsa scope. The Savage, well I'm trying a different sabot and bullet combo, trying to steer away from the barnes t-ez's because of cost. I used a harvester red c/r and there 260 pt gold with 41 gns of sr4759, trigger @ 3 1/2 lbs and Bushnell scope and the best I get is 1 3/4 -2" or more. Tried the hornady and hph combo which is a tighter fit in the Savage and it did worse. I tried some hph12 with the sst and could hardly get it down the barrel. The red c/r and pt gold is a tight fit that i can live with. I'm tempted to use the optima next weekend and leave the Savage sit till I can figure it out. Oh, and I dry patch after every shot with both guns. There's not going to be many that agree with me on this, however after 1000's of shots with about every bullet sabot combo and half dozen different powders, I have found that 4759 can be the most accurate powder one day, and with a slight barometric change, 4759 is dependably inaccurate. I will not hunt with that powder, period... I've experienced this problem with both savage and pacnor barrels. I'm not looking for a pushing match, because many of you favor this powder. But for those of you that wonder why one day is spot on and the next, what the hell, watch your barometric reading. Just my observation. Thanks for reading. Jeff~
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 4, 2010 18:46:42 GMT -5
Post by tar12 on Jan 4, 2010 18:46:42 GMT -5
You might be looking at inconsistent bullets and not sabots.I have found the harvesters to be the most consistent of all.What kind of base is on the PT gold that it did not fit well in the MMP sabot?That may be your problem.What is your cleaning procedure?Try not patching in between shots.
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 4, 2010 19:47:05 GMT -5
Post by jeff on Jan 4, 2010 19:47:05 GMT -5
You might be looking at inconsistent bullets and not sabots.I have found the harvesters to be the most consistent of all.What kind of base is on the PT gold that it did not fit well in the MMP sabot?That may be your problem.What is your cleaning procedure?Try not patching in between shots.[/quote I have also found harvester sabots to be the most consistant. Matter of fact a friend switched from mmp's to harvesters and cured an ill shooting savage. Jeff~
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 4, 2010 20:21:15 GMT -5
Post by olegburn on Jan 4, 2010 20:21:15 GMT -5
How many shots do you have on the ventliner? Tried measuring hole diameter? If erroded,it may open the groups,sometime real bad.
Consistent 1 1/2"-2" groups are not bad,though.That makes it a 200 yard gun on whitetails,really. I would hunt with it,any day. olegburn
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 4, 2010 20:36:23 GMT -5
Post by tar12 on Jan 4, 2010 20:36:23 GMT -5
Jeff, I have seen that simple sabot change work miracles more than once.
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 4, 2010 20:58:44 GMT -5
Post by shoot2reload on Jan 4, 2010 20:58:44 GMT -5
I'll totally defer to the expertise on this forum, but it seems to me in many instances there's no magic formula to get your Savage to perform well. It takes testing and range time. I happened to get lucky and hit a home-run with the first combo I tried: the ho-hum generic book-load 44gr 5744/250gr Hornady XTP with the black MMP sabot.
After that I tried SR4759 and the groups went from nice cloverleafs to shotgun patterns.
But I wouldn't automatically blame the powder--it's a total package. Keep trying different combinations--you'll know when you strike gold.
|
|
|
Dilemma
Jan 4, 2010 21:13:50 GMT -5
Post by pcgolfer on Jan 4, 2010 21:13:50 GMT -5
Well, I have used 43 grains of 5744 with 250 Hornady XTPs and MMP sabots. Your comment about "getting it down the barrel" makes me wonder. What type of primers are you using. The CCI's are hot and solve this problem in many guns ... including blackhorn. After you use up your powder... I strongly recommend you consider 5744. Never one problem... and I own a stainless and a blue. I don't believe there is a difference.
|
|
|
Post by midohhntr on Jan 5, 2010 0:45:40 GMT -5
Olegburn, about 75 shots or so. Jeff, the base of the pt golds is sharp not slightly rounded like the sst's. As for the aa5744, I'd like to try it but the local s/g can't seem to keep it in stock. Funny, there's always 4759 on the shelf. I use winchester primers, never had a problem with them.
|
|
|
Post by boarhog on Jan 5, 2010 2:10:32 GMT -5
midohhntr I found VV N-110 to be very consistent, with low extreme spreads and faster speeds than 4759, when using book loads of 42-44 grains under 250 grain bullets. There has been some discussion about the relative merits of sharp edged flat bases verses radiused base edges. The consensus was that the flat based bullets were less likely to have blown sabots than the rounded edge ones. I don't know if any scientific testing has been done to prove that theory.
Another possible cause of your inconsistency is the old barrel heat buildup softening sabots bugaboo. If your rifle puts the first 2 or 3 close, then starts widening the group, I would suspect heat. I can't stand to wait 20 minutes between shots, so I use a cooling rod. It has made a huge difference for me. Boarhog
|
|