NULA?

[10ga]

Anybody have any knowledge of or experience with the NULA smokeless MLs? Friend is contemplating purchase and asked me about them and I haven't any knowledge on these units until bout 30 minutes ago when I did the google on them. AND I don't believe everything I read. caveat emptor! 10 ga

[ohiobuckeye]

Tell us what you did not like about them, I have a NULA and would not trade mine for anything, yes they do cost a bunch, but when you look at what some of the guys are putting in there Savages with the PN's there is not a lot of difference in cost. I have never had a problem with mine and it shot so much better than my Savage even after I did some work on it, if you do much hunting and walking with it then you would see a big difference in them, just my two cents.

[fishhawk]

I put NULA on the search feature on this site and found lots of info. Try it if you haven't already.

[jeff]

I've had a nula and pacnor, In my opinion the nula is over priced and cheaply made. Go ahead nula fans nail me to the cross.
The barrel is less than half the thickness of a savage or pacnor barrel the stock is molded composite not sure about the action and the ram rod is wood. For ONLY $1300

I ordered one, waited 8 months, it came missing the primer holder on the bolt, a right hand check piece , it was ordered for a left hander, a blued barrel instead of the Stainless I order {sent a blue barrel because of bulging problems with the stainless} and a wooden ramrod with a missing brass end..
When I called Melvin and confronted him on the situation he asked me to send it back after his busy season. SAY WHAT,
for a 8 month wait and $1300 I expect customer service asap. I never shot the piece of crap and sold it .

Jeff~

[dwhunter]

Dec 27, 2009 19:17:30 GMT -5 jeff said:

I've had a nula and pacnor, In my opinion the nula is over priced and cheaply made. Go ahead nula fans nail me to the cross.
The barrel is less than half the thickness of a savage or pacnor barrel the stock is molded composite not sure about the action and the ram rod is wood. For ONLY $1300

I ordered one, waited 8 months, it came missing the primer holder on the bolt, a right hand check piece , it was ordered for a left hander, a blued barrel instead of the Stainless I order {sent a blue barrel because of bulging problems with the stainless} and a wooden ramrod with a missing brass end..
When I called Melvin and confronted him on the situation he asked me to send it back after his busy season. SAY WHAT,
for a 8 month wait and $1300 I expect customer service asap. I never shot the piece of crap and sold it .

Jeff~

Jeff I think you hit the nail right on the head.

[grouse]

I could also list many issues with Savages quality control but it's irrelevant. When both guns are correct the NULA is in a different world. As like mentioned above, that $1300.00 is nothing when compared to what people are spending on Savages now.

[dwhunter]

Trying to compare a what's supposed to be a custom gun and a Savage is like comparing apples and oranges. If a you spend $1300 on a custom gun it should be right and not have to be sent back. As far as spending more on a Savage I have a laminate stainless RB special with .45 cal Pacnor bedded and third pillar with about $900 in, the gun came to me right the first time with NO issues.

[artjr338wm]

No offense what so ever meant to Grouse and others who are NULA fans, and I do not want to engage in a whizzing match of who's ML is better, but I do not know of anyone who stays with the factory stock and barrel has invested $1300 total dolors in a 10ML-II. I think that is almost approaching impossible to do so.
And for those that have purchased a stock 10Ml-II new for the purpose of having a .45 or .40 caliber barrel installed on it to shoot sabot-less, the reviews of them are well over 95% favorable, and I strongly doubt any of them would trade them for a NULA because if they wanted a NULA they would IMHO have bought one to start with.

Although I could be wrong, I think you could have a new P-N barrel installed on your 10ML-II, have the action glass bedded, third pillar screw installed and still be below cost of a NULA and have smokeless ML that is the equal of if not surpassing a NULA in all aspects.

My 10ML-II in stainless steel with a laminated wood stock cost me IIRC $549.99 NIB when I bought it from NSS. I researched buying the 10ML-II for a long time before I committed to one. After all my research I came up with only three aspects of the 10ML-IIs design might give me problems so I felt I would remove them as doing so would not cause any harm or cause any new problems to crop up. I sent it unfired in the factory supplied box to RBnAR and had him preform the fallowing:
<>Install a third pillar screw
<>Glass bed the action
<>Machine to fit the front scope base
<>Polish my bore with JBs
<>Install bushing in breach plug to eliminate need for vent liner

I will not publicly list what I paid for these services as i do not know if RBnAR would want me to do so, but I will say it was way less than 1/2 the cost of my 10ML-II.
IIRC RBnAR even adjusted my trigger to 3.5lbs and test fired my 10ML-II after all modifications at no added cost to me!!!!! and even sent me the targets and loads he shot! NOW
THATS SERVICE!!!!

My 10ML-II's total cost to me after all modifications and S&H with out optics, is still 40% below of the cost of a new NULA and the groups I have posted here I have shot with I feel I can safely say would be the equal to any thing one could expect from their NULA, all bragging and BSing aside.

I will be the first to admit the NULA in all likely hood is a superior gun to the 10ML-II in terms of Q/C and some design aspects as well, BUT and correct me if I am wrong, the NULA is a HAND MADE AND ASSEMBLED CUSTOM FIREARM WITH A 6-8 month WAIT to get and the 10ML-II is a MASS PRODUCED firearm and you simply can not compare the two as to do is devoid of all fairness, and IMHO borders on silly.

Anyone who wishes to compare a NULA and a 10ML-II and note the short comings of the 10ML-II in terms of Q/C problems and design flaws (lets not forget the need for a third pillar screw and that PITA recoil lug that can interfere with the front scope base)
Needs to keep in mind Savage undoubtedly sells many, many more 10ML-IIs than NULA sells smokeless MLs and will produce more MLs with problems as the sheer No#s of 10ML-IIs produced VS NULAs will make this a statistical certainty.

Now this is strictly my opinion, but if I am spending over 2x as much money on a NULA as on a 10ML-II, over $1300 and I then have to wait 6-8 months and possibly longer, there is no way on this earth you can tell me that a $1300 custom hand made and assembled gun should EVER, EVER be allowed to leave the NULA factory with ANY type of defect or missing parts.

I mean even Savage takes the time to test fire every 10ML-II before it is allowed to be shipped, so what is NULA's problem or excuse for the more than a few NULA ML problem child's I have read about both here and over at MM? Don't get me wrong I am sure NULA ML owners are a happy lot overwhelmingly so, but for $1300 for a ML even a smokeless capable ML they have every right to expect to be.

Is the NULA a better smokeless ML in some aspects than the 10ML-II? absolutely, I am sure it is, and for 2x the cost of a 10ML-II it HAS TO BE other wise how could NULA sell them at that price.



I just do not think, again IMHO, it is so much better than a 10ML-II to be worth or justify costing $1300. To put it another way if I had a 180" white tail standing broad side to me at 200yrds would a NULA ML serve me any better than my 10ML-II would?
I honestly do not think so.

I would never tell anyone they were wrong or foolish in buying a NULA smokeless ML, I would be guilty of ignorance in doing so, if a person has his/her heart set on buying a NULA, then by all means do so, just do not expect it to perform any task as it applies to a hunting application dramatically better than a 10ML-II, IMHO I do not think it can. I simply do not see how it will serve the deer hunter any better than a 10ML-II would as a hunting tool in that the primary purpose and function of a 10ML-II, NULA is to kill the antlered animals we hunt with it, in that respect I do not see how a NULA is any better than a 10ML-II.

Again this is only my opinion and no disrespect is intended along with expressing it.

Arthur.

[yep]

I dont think a lot of it has to do with which is better it has more to do with the weight savings and some people are willing to pay extra for that. I dont own one but will soon just for that reason. Theres no doubt both guns will shoot. I've seen to many groups from both guns posted. I agree a custom gun should not leave the shop without every thing being checked. I dunno, I say if $1300 doesnt mean much try one. If you dont like it you should have no problem whatsoever selling it. They both have there positives and negatives you need to weigh them out yourself and see whats right for you. Good luck!

[chuck41]

I bought my ML10-2 for $525 three years ago and added another $400 for the PacNor .40 barrel. Total investment for gun including shipping and barrel wrench and a bit of J-B Weld for stock bedding, was under $1000. I wouldn't even think of swapping it for a $1300 NULA even with the weight savings, but that is just me.

The 40, or 45 PacNor barrels are far better than the stock .50 Savage version and worth every penny of the upgrade price. With the barrel upgrade I think the end result is a far better gun than the NULA, and at a lesser price but once again that is just IMHO.

For someone who walks around carrying their rifle during hunting, (I do it only from a stand) the NULA's light weight might be worth the difference, but not to me. My 10.2# ML10 (including scope) is a much more stable shooting platform, especially if you are shooting a heavy bullet at very high velocity. These guns are easily capable of equaling .375 H&H power and recoil and I have experienced that kind of punishment with a 5# rifle before. It was not a pleasant experience!

[bigmoose]

Money aside, anyone my age would like to have a lighter rifle than my Savage, at 11lbs, its hard work carrying it across the tundra........The question to me is can the NULA shoot like my Savage, if a Nula owner reports it will hit dime size targets, I'm interested
Because in the end, rifle is to shooting, now I know you don't have to hit a dime, to take a 1500 plus pound Moose......but its comforting to know you can.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL

[grouse]

Dec 31, 2009 14:52:37 GMT -5 bigmoose said:

The question to me is can the NULA shoot like my Savage, if a Nula owner reports it will hit dime size targets, I'm interested

It will shoot a quarter very easy

[grouse]

The initial thread does not ask anything about a Savage. The question is about the NULA. How many people who posted on this thread actually own one? ;D

I bought a NULA a couple three years ago. I believe i was the last to buy one at $900.00 If mine was stolen or whatever i would buy another at $1300.00 bucks. They are an excellant ML and very reliable. The only complaint i have is the ram-rod. Every Knight and T/C i ever bought i changed the rod. Even the new Endeavor/Pro-Hunter rod i switch out for a XS Power rod.

The ML is light and very accurate. The breech plug is awesome. No vent-liners and no erosion so far. The gun shoots like a Triumph. Both guns are light and need a pretty firm hold on the bench. I do suggest Nikon Omega and Leupold scopes for both ML'S. The extra eye relief is nice.

[bigmoose]

grouse,

Does your post mean, it can hit two dimes and an nickel.

What is the weight with scope and mounts?

Wonder if RB could make a .45 out of it?

Hitting dimes is meaningless, when I told my Moose guide I could hit a dime from the bench, he said so....does that mean you plan on shooting them in the eye. very uninpressed

But great fun, watching folks [centerfire shooters] tell me its some kind of trick, can't be done with a muzzleloader. each time I go to the range, some asked me to do it again, with them watching, I smile and say, sorry I retired...besides your right it can't be done.

[scienceguy]

Well, here goes my 2 cents worth...........

Let me say first of all that I am not trying to add fuel to anyone's fire about which is the better rifle, the Savage or the NULA. I don't want to get involved in any battles along those lines. I'm just going to relate my personal experiences for you to take or leave.

I own(ed) both the NULA and several Savage muzzleloaders. Both of my Savage rifles were pretty good shooters from the beginning. I sold one to fund a complete reworking of the other. I went for all the bells and whistles....new bedded stock, third screw, and so on. That Savage would shoot consistent inch and a quarter groups all day long with the 300 XTP, on some days it would break the one inch mark. The finished gun weighed a little over 11 pounds. I shot a dandy 10 pointer with that gun, my largest to date with a muzzleloader. If I were to hunt only from ground blinds, this gun would be ideal. Frankly, I got tired of lugging that rifle around. With my kids grown and gone, and money less tight, I began to think seriously of finding something lighter. I decided to order a NULA, based on things I had read. Mine cost $1200 at the time. Looking back over my records, there wasn't a great deal of difference between what I had invested in that Savage, and the price of the NULA. My NULA is topped with a Zeiss Conquest 3X9, and tips the scale at close to 7 1/2 pounds. I changed out the ramrod to one that was a bit stiffer. Using a sand filled Bull's Bag, which grips the forend and reduces felt recoil, and a sandbag under the buttstock, I had no troubles sighting the gun in. From the beginning, the NULA never shot a group larger than 3/4 inch with either the 250 Bonded Shockwave, or the 275 BE. Other NULA owners have reported the same level of accuracy. I had the gun finished with a four color oak leaf camo pattern. It is as pretty to look at as it is accurate. Fit and finish of my NULA is near perfect. It is a joy to handle and carry. I learned the ins and outs of smokeless muzzleloading with that Savage, and the help from many shooters on this site. I can understand why so many shooters love the Savage, especially those on a budget or those guys who love to tinker and find ways to make a great rifle even better. I will be the first to admit that I am not into 40/45 barrel conversions, duplex loads, sabotless shooting and so on. I admire the passion of those guys who do. I'm sure it is a fascinating and rewarding addiction of the highest order. That being said, My NULA provides me with everything I want in a smokeless muzzleloader: excellent workmanship, light weight, incredible accuracy, and it fits me like a glove. Looking back, if I knew everything I know now about these two guns, I would have bought the NULA before going through the rebuild of my Savage. If I had kids in school yet, and the bills to pay of my younger years, I would still be lugging around that Savage, and would be happy doing so. I am lucky to be in a position now to afford both. The Savage sits in my gun safe, and the NULA goes hunting with me. I'm keeping the Savage for the time being, but if an emergency need for cash arose, it would be the first rifle out of my safe to be sold. I will not part with my NULA.

For those of you who are thinking about investing in a NULA, I would recommend you do so. You will not regret the choice. For those of you whose favorite is the Savage, I am happy for you as it is a wonderful rifle and another fine choice.

[bigmoose]

scienceguy,

How does it handle heavy loads, 350gr,Copper bullets pushed at speed/

[grouse]

Jan 1, 2010 16:29:13 GMT -5 bigmoose said:

Does your post mean, it can hit two dimes and an nickel.

What is the weight with scope and mounts?

Wonder if RB could make a .45 out of it?

Two Dimes and a Nickel wont matter to the Deer.

NULA with Leupold VX 3= 7lbs 10 ounces

[scienceguy]

Bigmoose,
I have no idea. Never saw the need to use the artillery round that you listed. I generally hunt only whitetails, as we don't have a season here in Illinois on armored tanks. My go to load has been 42 grains of 4759 behind the 250 Bonded Shockwave. Without double checking my chronograph records downstairs, the velocity of that load in my NULA, I believe, was 2150 fps. This has proven to be an accurate and deadly load for deer. Your deer must be tougher than ours! LOL! You might want to consider using an RPG next season.........

[davidfoor]

With all of the great bullets out there, no matter which gun you shoot, why would you want or need a 350gr bullet? I have a Savage, but if I wanted a 7 lb or so gun & scope, NULA is what I would buy.

[dans]

bigmoose shoots big moose and I think a grizzly is possibly in his future.

[KerryB]

Jan 1, 2010 18:22:00 GMT -5 bigmoose said:

scienceguy,

How does it handle heavy loads, 350gr,Copper bullets pushed at speed/

At 7.5 pounds (sporter weight) and the load you are describing, it would be brutal to shoot very many times! I would be sure to use a scope with plenty of eye relief, cause that mule is gonna buck! ;D

[bigmoose]

Dans,

While I enjoy hunting deer, I not longer shoot them, I use 300 gr. Barnes X bullets in my .50 pushed along by 68 to 70 grs of H4198, and 290gr Barnes TMZ's in my .45. for Alaskan Moose.
The 350gr Barnes X bullet and 66 to 68 grs of H4198 hopefully will take a Brownie, as you well know, you can't be overgunned for Brown Bears, all the guides use .375 H&H, I beleive my 350 load is the equal to the 375, time will tell. While no one wants to get beat up, recoil is not a factor with me, Shooting offhand [with sticks] its not noticeable,
On the bench I limit myself to 15 shoots with the 350 load. I'll be 76 this month, and not the man I use to be, but than again who is.

[scienceguy]

dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=smokeless&action=display&thread=3812

Scroll down the above thread and check out the cost of one guy's dream.

When you have the ideal rifle in mind, go for it! I bet that gun will be an incredible shooter!

Kinda puts spending $1200 on my NULA into a different perspective. I was more than willing to drop that much cash for what is the ideal muzzleloader for me.

[lwh723]

Jan 3, 2010 9:44:18 GMT -5 scienceguy said:

dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=smokeless&action=display&thread=3812

Scroll down the above thread and check out the cost of one guy's dream.

When you have the ideal rifle in mind, go for it! I bet that gun will be an incredible shooter!

Kinda puts spending $1200 on my NULA into a different perspective. I was more than willing to drop that much cash for what is the ideal muzzleloader for me.

Yeah, except if you throw out the scope, base, and rings which he included in his price tag, he's already met or beat the NULA price tag. Additionally, he (admittedly) paid more than he needed to on the donor action, so going by his figures, you could approach <$1000 for a gun like his (less scope, rings, and base). If I don't care about weight...I know which gun I'm going with!

[scienceguy]

I could see the lower cost if someone gave you an action to work with. Most guys buy the Savage centerfire to start with or build on an ML II they had to buy anyway for the conversion. Add that to your cost of the new stock, barrel, breechplug, shipping back and forth of all the components, and so on, and the numbers add up differently. All out conversions can involve a sizeable outlay of cash. Eliminate a new stock or custom barrel from the list, and the price drops appreciably. I was comparing the cost of a NULA to what a complete conversion, starting with the Savage action one had bought and going on from there, might run. Actually I could care less for what someone decides to spend on a pet project or dream rifle. To each his own, as some guys modify their guns to different degrees and costs. It comes down to what the individual wants. Weight was the biggest factor for me in deciding on the NULA. I know what my Savage conversion cost me, and I know what the final project ended up weighing. There is no way to get that Savage down to a weight of 8 pounds with scope. I'll state it again.........Knowing what I know now, I would have bought the NULA first instead of having my Savage modified. That decision would be based on my personal preferences as to fit, finish, accuracy, ease of carry and intended use. If I were to decide to use a heavier recoiling load, I'd want the heavier Savage. If I wanted to experiment with the 45 or 40 bore, I'd want the Savage. My NULA load is intended for the deer hunting that I do. The extra weight of a heavier rifle is not needed for my intended purpose, nor is it desired. That's just me, not trying to influence anybody else here. The choice is up to the individual.

[Indianahunter]

Jan 1, 2010 15:56:45 GMT -5 grouse said:

Dec 31, 2009 14:52:37 GMT -5 bigmoose said:

The question to me is can the NULA shoot like my Savage, if a Nula owner reports it will hit dime size targets, I'm interested

It will shoot a quarter very easy

All day long!