New Yorkers Help

[pode]

I got from, what I believe, a reliable source, next year NY will have an early muzzleloading season. Bow season will start a week or so later than usual and we will have a "primitive" season for muzzleloading DOE ONLY. The source thought primitive to be no scopes. Has anyone heard anything ?

[jkruger]

I heard the same from a friend . He read this in the New York Sportsman news. dont know if its for real or not . Keep an eye on the DEC website is all that I could suggest.

[DBinNY]

The NY Bowhunters and Muzzleloader Associations submitted a joint proposal that would move the bow opener back to October 1st and have a 1 week "primitive" MZ antlerless only season prior to the regular firearms season. I think it also had a youth season the weekend prior to the regular season as well if I remember correctly. Anyhow, 95%+ (my guess) of the x thousands of muzzleloader hunters they claim to be serving hunt with in-lines so it's not too difficult to see who they are actually trying to serve. A very small special interest group. Common sense also tells me that the bowhunters would not support anything that would put a significant number of guns in the woods with them anyway (I'm a bowhunter). This, like any other regulation proposal that alters deer seasons is highly controversial and nothing has been decided at this point.

[moto357]

norther zone or southerntier?

[wilmsmeyer]

The peak of the rut usually falls the last week of bow season. Putting guns in the woods while bowhunters who have waited for this week to kick in seems like a bad idea.

[pode]

moto 357 Southern zone Wills the primitive season would be starting around Sept 15, but I really don't think anything is settled as of now.

[gjs4]

Although i love my ml, i am a bowhunter at heart. Even aside from that...NY has way too much gun pressure. this is a dumb idea- we dont even have the does necessary let alone the need for unaccurate 75 yard "primitive weapons"...

[northny]

Take a page from what they did in my area of the Northern Zone several years back. First, they added the early does only MZ season, the week before gun season. This at a time when you have bow hunters, turkey hunters and duck hunters all out in camo. (We are in a flyway of the St lawrence seaway, so the wooded streams and beaver pounds all get pounded for ducks) . Putting guns in the woods with Camo hunters not a concern to DEC it seems.

Then a few years later attached to a press release annoucing the three -two permit rules, the DEC had a statement to the effect that they also made a few other minor changes to the regulations with out elaboration. One of the other minor changes was the early MZ season (the week before gun season) was changed to include bucks as well as does. The result is that many hunters (including all that I hunt with) picked up MZ hunting the following year, and now the tradional opening day activities occur opening day of the early the MZ season.

I am not sure if the DEC was driven by the need to generate funds (by the extra MZ licenses we now all buy) or the hope to kill more deer to manage the deer population.

But expect that this will be the camels nose under the tent. First does only, then bucks or does.

[DBinNY]

northny, the pre-season MZ hunting you refer to in the Northern Zone allows the use of any muzzleloader including in-lines, sighting system, etc. The northern zone is a completely different animal than the southern zone in NY. The southern zone is more densely populated with both humans and deer and is more agricultural and is predominately privately owned. The NZ is less agricultural and has far fewer people and deer so the management approaches are different.

[northny]

DB- a late merry Christmas. I always respect and enjoy your posts, but disagree with you on this one. I hunted 25+ years in Stueben County (Southern Tier for the non new Yorkers reading this) so am quite familiar with the area. Where I now hunt in the north is above the adirondak park, (area 6a), and is very much like southern tier for being privately owned and agricultural. About the same density of people. The main difference is it has both less hills and less deer. I don't know a farm or small public area around my place that is not hunted throughout the season. The hunting pressure is different, in that there is not the massive opening week pressure, which then drops off but it is a longer season with more consistent pressure. (the saying we have is every day is as good as opening day)

The point to my previous post is that if the DEC starts with an early primative doe only season, within 5 to seven years it will likely be any frontloader and bucks and/or doe. The first primative season will take so few does, they will rationalize that letting them shoot bucks won't make a difference as they will take even less bucks than does. At that point with so few deer still being taken with primative weapons, and so few in the late MZ season, that they will rationalize any front loader will be allowed as the deer take will still be low. Suddenly you will be where we are, everyone buys a frontloader and it is no longer an early MZ season, but as we now call it "opening week". And everyone in camp now buys an additional MZ license to go with bow and rifle. It is a win win for them, a fer more deer killed and more revenue.

The biggest loss to me would be the loss of tradition. I now feel like the rifle does not come out untill the second weekend of the season.

But hey, just my two cents worth.

[gjs4]

I use my ml2 over my shotgun- far superior weapon. I much rather bowhunt to be honest though. The DEC is justy totally out of whack trying to manage for revenue and nothing else. We wont have much a deer herd with this BS kill'em all approach. I am with DB on the NZ and SZ differences too.

Such a sad state..

[DBinNY]

northny, no question there are pockets of agriculture and population in the NZ and some vast rural areas in the SZ. I was just making very general comments.

gjs4, IMO the biggest problem with getting sufficent deer kill in NY is the lack of public access on private property in the SZ. That, combined with deer that have figured out that they can live close to civilization (i.e., around houses) and not get shot.

NY is a very diverse state with a large number of issues (crossbows, antler restrictions, primitive seasons etc.) that nobody can seem to agree on. Farmers (many who limt access)want fewer deer and hunters want more. No matter what DEC does, even if it is change nothing, somebody is not going to be happy.

I hope you both had a nice Christmas.

[wilmsmeyer]

DB has hit all the major points here. NY is extremely diverse.

Where I live, there is the "problem" DB poses: Unlimited food, cover......and private property. Farms in the 1000's of acres. Cars kill more deer then even our group can in our area.

So if you are a hunter...like me...wow...it's great. Just be careful driving, keep your weapons in good shape, and enjoy the season.

If you're a farmer, the deer are hurting your profits....BUT, you don't trust anybody and everyone to hunt safely on your land. So you let you closest friends hunt and it's not enough.

If your a car insurance company, the phone rings a lot and probably support all year rifle season.

It's a VERY tough state to manage IMO and our DEC has it's hands full. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes not.....but they have a multitude of challenges.

I've spent a lot of time in the Adirondack and grew up in the middle of the Catskills so I've seen most of the state and it's entirely different everywhere you go.