New TC Encore, had poor results have questions

[swany]

Shot a friends Encore ML and have not had luck with a recomended load of 150g pellets, 250g shockwave, REm 209.
We swabed with alcohol between shots. The gun has a nikon 3-9 bdc mounted properly. It will not group less then 4"-5" at 100yds

Any thoughts?

swany NY

[davewolf]

Drop the load down to 100-grains. And shoot it again at 50-yards and show us the target. Tell these folks more about the group, high, left, right, low? Did you adjust the scope before you found out how well it grouped with three shots?
What kind of pellets were you using?
I know that's a lot of questions to find a simple answer. But this board is the right place to find out what ails ya!
Have a great day!
Dave

[shooter]

swany ,Welcome to the board here what i would do.
(1) check all scope rings and bases.
(2) I would take some good bore cleaner and a wire brush and clean the bore really well scrub it till you cant scrub it no more. ;D
(3) I would use the (MMP sabots) hph12 sabots (These will be very tight but tight is right).I would also use a 250 gr shock-wave or a SST.
(4) I would get some Remington 209 primer or some triple seven 209 primers.
(5) I would get some triple seven pellets.I would start with 100 gr and see how it grouped.
(6) I would seat the bullet really good but don't seat the bullet so hard you crush the pellet.You will loose accuracy.
(7) I would swab with alcohol between shots.

Note my encore it took 50 pound of pressure to get the bullet it down the bore.
I hope this help.

[swany]

Scope I cleaned, mounted and retorqued (torque-wrench after the first box or 15 shots.

Bore cleaned very well after shooting and swabed between shots with alcohol then a dry patch.

Yes, we tried to shoot groups with it between adjusments.

They are triple-7 pellets

We will drop her down to 100 and try again.

Do you guys know what the MOA of a TC endeavore ML is??? could not find this info in book.

[Deleted]

First off I'm not trying to bash TC or the Encore and this is strictly my opinion, I had an encore and know of alot of others who have owned/shot them. I personally could not get mine to shoot 150gr of any type of pellets/bullet/primer combo, the maximum charge in mine before accuracy flew off the chart was 110gr of 777, anything above that in any configuration accuracy was, well let's say bad. TC was contacted and they recommended shooting 100gr of powder, that was their fix. Maybe you can perform a miracle and get yours to shoot a magnum load accurately but mine and lots of others wouldn't. Mine went down the road and was replaced by a CVA Optima Pro, which does shoot the 150gr load well, I also bought a Kodiak Pro and it too shoots the magnum charge very well. Not sure if it's the 29' barrels or what but CVA figured out how to make a bp gun shoot up to 150gr charge and shoot it well. On the other hand if long yardage shots are not an issue, the Encore will shoot 100gr loads as well as any gun made. I personally wanted that little extra umph that the 150 gr pellet or 120 gr powder loads provided but my Encore couldn't deliver. I hope yours works out for you. Good luck.

[Al]

try the black Harvestor crush ribs, two guys I work with have been chasing their Encores and one with a old Knight Disc with the same problem, and the BCR's brought them around.

[davewolf]

Al:
You may be one of those that turned me on to the crushed rib sabots or ribbed sabots. Those and 100-grains of Blackhorn shooting 250-grain shockwaves turned my Triumph around in a mili-second. But, I still prefer CCI M primers.
I hope to see this rifle shoot as well as mine!
Have a great day!
Dave

[artjr338wm]

I own a first years run Encore 209x50 in blued and walnut. Have shot around 1550 loads using 150grns of pelitized Pyrodex. IIRC my 100yrd 3-shot average was under 2". Then shot over 500 loads using 120grns of 3-F 777 100yrd 3-shot average was around the same at 1.75-1.8" All these shots were with the older (over 10yrs older) Hornady Black HP sabots.

But I will admit at loads of 100grns of pelitized Pyrodex, I got at or near MOA groups.

Bought my 10ML-II about 6yrs ago and retired the Encore. Then came BH209 and I bought 2 jugs. Took the Encore out and Shot both 300grn XTPs and 300grn PTgolds (both knurled up to .4515) and used Harvester BCR sabots. Used 120grn charges of BH209 and both shot well under 2" with the PTGolds shooting at or near MOA.

The one thing I learned from my experience of shooting my Encore over 2000 times with the older weaker sabots, was the week link was the sabot. I could only shoot max loads in temps below 40* or my sabots would fail and my accuracy would go south, but never worce than say 4.5" groups.

With the newer sabots made out of stronger material, I was able to shoot 120grn by volume loads of BH209 in temps of around 50-55* and as long as I allowed the barrel to cool compleatly btwn shots, I enjoyed excellent groups.

I would strongly recommend you try a different sabot from both MMP and Harveater as a cheap and easy way to try to solve your problem. Call both and I am sure they will send you a sample pack of different sabots for free or extreamly cheap. be sure to explane your situation to them when you call.

I would also recommend if you do not have to much $$$ invested in 777 pellets that you give 777 powder ot Pyrodex RS powder a try as it is much easior to adjust your charge weight in order to find your rifles so called sweet spot. I say this as my friends Encore shot well with 120grns of 3-F 777 but realy shot its best with charges of 110grns of 3-F 777.

Even though I am blessed with CF rifles that shoot extreamly well (especially since they are 100% factory rifles) the 100yrd three shot group I am most proud of was shot with of all my rifles, my Encore.

I was at the range on a perfect day for shooting (partly sunny, around 35*, low, low humidity, and zero wind) helping my friend getting prepaired for a ML elk hunt in NM. I was having one of my best range days in memory and desided to show off a bit. Using my Encore, 120grns of loose 3-F 777, a 300grn XTP and a MMP sabot, I shot at a big orange bulls eye target at 100yrds off hand with no sling three times as fast as I could reload my Encore. Two of three shots ended up touching, admittedly barely touching, but touching none the less and the third almost touching the other two for a group that measured C-C right at 1.33". That target sits framed on the wall in my relaoding room. This was done with a scope design more for hunting than target shooting as the scope was a Leupold VariX-II 2-7x33mm shotgun scope that has leupolds Heavy Duplex cross hairs which are great for hunting but not so much if your trying to shoot tiny little groups at 100yrds.

Hope this was helpfull,
Arthur.

[swany]

Thanks guys, you have shed some light. I to have a 10ml and use the BCR with most of my loads. Also I will have him drop the charge and use granular.

thanks
swany

[10ga]

Everyone seems to give good advice. Finding the right combo for maximum performance is part of the fun of shooting. My suggestions are:
1. use granular powder. 3F seems best
2. Start at 70 grains and work up in 5 grain incriments (my gun shoots 85 grains best)
3. use 300 grain boolits, the .458s with correct size sabots work best in my guns
4. Personally I shoot real black powder. Swiss is no dirtier than 3/7 or pyrodex.
5. I use regular 209 primers, CCI 209M in fact.
6. remember that your accuracy and shooting in the field is not going to equal what you do off of a bench with bags.
7. Get a Savage and go smokeless. Then you will find out what real troubleshooting is.

Best, 10 ga

PS.... After finding my accuracy load I love shooting my Savage!

[zakjak221]

Swany,

I used to shoot a T/C Encore, but sold it.
My son, however still shoots an Encore and uses the following load with great results: Horn. 250 gr. XTP with MMP short black sabot, 110 gr loose 777 and Rem. kleanbore primers.
This load will group 2" or better at 100 yds. 250 gr bullets seem to do well in the T/C's and 110 gr.'s is a winner for us.
I would suggest you use loose powder so you can dial powder loads in closer. ex. try 90,95,100,110 grain loads.
As you probably know, T/C's have real tight bores so try a few different sabots to see what yours likes.
The MMP's are very tight down the bore in my son's gun, but give better accuracy than Harvester EZ glide sabots and MMP 24's.
I think the MMP short blacks are MMP12's?

Anyway, my two cents.
Mark

[artjr338wm]

FWIW, my friend used a charge of 110 grains of 3-F 777 and 300 grain XTP Mags to take a 320" 6x6 NM bull elk. His first shot was at 150 yards confirmed with a laser range finder and his second was at a little under 70, and the bull droped at the impact of the second shot. My friend said he did not feel the second shot was realy nessasary as after the impact of the first shot, a dbl lung hit, the bull was just milling around and going no where, he just shot the bull a second time as night was fast aproaching and he did not want the bull going anywhere. So based on this 110grns of loose 777 should be good enough for deer out 175yrds if you can shoot to that distance.

[huntrrr]

Just a suggestion try this it has shot sub MOA in 3 encores and 5 different omega's 2 777 pellets and a 250 gr. Barnes expander with a harvester short black sabot. It may not produce the velocity you are searching for but start there and you can always go to loose powder (777) or blackhorn and work up in 10 gr. increments till you groups grow to large for your liking. I would be very surprised if this combo won't produce exceptional.accuracy in an encore.This load recoils gently and has killed deer to 175 yds stone dead. Let me know if it works for you. Huntrrr..........

[Deleted]

110gr T7 is good for 200+ yards IMO! My brother in law only used 105gr pyrodex rs and a 250gr conical to take a deer at 175 yards. 11-12" of drop at that distance.

[marku]

My father had a whole bunch of problems with his Encore getting accuracy out of it. He bought some 260gr Harvester PT scorpions with the crush rib sabot, using 2 2000fps T7 pellets, and a Remington Kleenbore primer.

Being consistant and cleaning the same way between every shot is what matters. Make sure you dry the bore out with a couple of dry patchs, shoot on cooler days and let the barrel cool down between shots.

With that load WITH PELLETS I shot a 3 shot group you could cover with a quarter at 100yds! Set at 2" high at 100yds he can shoot around 160yards without holding over his target.