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Post by buckfever on Nov 3, 2009 20:22:22 GMT -5
Hunters, I am new to this but I wondered if it makes any real difference to use a sabot or not? Are you trading plastic in your barrel for copper in your barrel? It also looks like there are more choices for the .50 caliber. My usage is for late muzzleloader hunts in Iowa and Illinois. I don't have a dog in this fight I just want to start out on the right track. I will be purchasing a CVA Accura or a Triumph, no decision yet. Buckfever
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Post by mountainam on Nov 3, 2009 21:39:19 GMT -5
If you're new to muzzleloading I would start with the sabot.It's a safety valve so to speak if something goes amiss. Your assumption is correct, there are more choices for the .50 cal. My go to bullet for years is the Remington 300 gr. H.P. in .458". No matter how much dough I spend on the new stuff, I keep coming back to the Remmy. I've shot this bullet in my .58 , 54 and numerous .50's including my Savage smokeless. It seems to be the workhorse. You can use the MMP orange .50X.458 sabot or the Harvester 50 x 45 Black ribbed sabot. I bought 1000 Rem. 300hp's about 8 years ago when Midsouth sold them for $8.95/100.I'm down to my last 100 and see that it will cost me $30.95/100 to replace them. The sabotless is for the guys in the next level up. If you study this board, you'll see that the sabotless is quite involved. Nothing wrong with you working toward that goal, just realize that there is some homework involved.Both rifles that you mentioned should be good shooters from what I read here. If you intend to use your muzzleloader for primitive season only and not shotgun season also, it's probably better if you don't get too much money wrapped up in a rifle.But if you by a good rifle and don't like it, it may be easier to resell it. Good Hunting!
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Post by davewolf on Nov 3, 2009 22:32:25 GMT -5
I agree. I would go with sabots and if you have the money, buy the Triumph. I did and I love it. This is what works for me.
250-grain Shockwaves
Black Harvester ribbed sabots
209 magnum primers (CCI)
100-grains of blackhorn 209.
Does a great job on whitetails and is accurate enough to hunt groundhogs with!
Good luck and good shooting!
Have a great day!
Dave
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Post by whyohe on Nov 4, 2009 7:12:17 GMT -5
there are some things to consider. some go sabot-less because they are alot easer to load. trading plastic for copper? if you are beginner and want to try sabot-less then i suggest you stick with power belt bullets. they are copper plated( which doesn't count to me JMO) and it is very thin. mostly lead so it will obturate easily. i have not messed with the platinum series and don't know too much about them. some have found that they get better accuracy out of bullet sabot combos. tighter is USUALLY better. and if you use a flat base bullet in .451/.452 you have alot of choices in sabot to get the fit and accuracy you are looking for.
QUESTIONS....
what kind of accuracy you looking for?
how far do you intend to shoot?
what kind of bullet performance you looking for?
how recoil sensitive are you?
believe it or not these questions can effect the choices you make.
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Post by buckfever on Nov 4, 2009 10:03:06 GMT -5
Late season hunts shooting up to 200yds. Need good blood trail as far as bullet performance. 3" @ 200yds. I shoot a 30-06 with 180's so that is OK. The next question after this becomes what is the best modern muzzleloader to accomplish these goals. I am not interested in smokeless because of states that don't allow there use and probably more to come. Just my opinion.
Buckfever
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2009 21:13:14 GMT -5
i love my Accura. Sweetest trigger ive ever felt! I shoot powerbelts and thor conicals in mine. With a 250gr thor my best 200 yard group ( my only time actually) was a stunning 1 1/2" group.  At 100 yards, this was my best. My average is 1" groups with the same thor. Measured outside to outside,  I started shooting these yesterday, new primers i found at the local shop. No crud ring at all with these primers. I just need to rework my loads and see where my new sweet spot is with these primers.  Great rifles i think. I have to use open sights in my state and they come right up into view perfectly. I also prefer the thumbhole stock. |
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Post by davewolf on Nov 4, 2009 22:02:56 GMT -5
I have used platinum and took two deer with them, and this year my friend took two with my .45 cal. CVA. I found them to out perform the copper bullets on target and on deer.
I would choose a Triumph to shoot a saboted bullet at the ranges you're asking about.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone, just adding my two-cents.
Have a great day!
Dave
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2009 2:46:13 GMT -5
From everything I've read those are both good choices for bp muzzleloaders, but my experiences with cva and TC combined with all the reviews I've read tells me my next muzzleloader will be an Accura. Either way I think you are headed on the right path. I'm getting ready to try shooting my Winchester Apex 45 sabotless, I'm going to try 250 SST's and 200 FTX's, the .452 Hornady bullets fit the bore pretty well so I will experiment and see what happens. I'll post some results after a trip to the range. Good luck
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2009 10:02:14 GMT -5
Just a quick note about shooting sabotless with a black powder rifle, as I had mentioned I was going to attempt to try to shoot my Winchester Apex 45 sabotless, I did just a little shooting with it and so far I am extremely impressed. Here is what I am doing if anyone is interested. I am taking Hornady 200gr FTX's (.452) and knurling them between two files to raise the surface, i load 120gr of loose fff-777, .060 vegetable wad, then the bare FTX bullet, using a cci primer. I've only got to fire around 6 shots with 777 and 4 shots with Blackhorn. Wow! This thing shoots incredible, I am going to get to the range and experiment some more once season is over but I had a 1' - 5 shot group at 75 yards right off the bat, shooting off a picnic table, my son fired it to compare where he would hit and he shot in the same hole. Blackorn gave the same result with a 3 shot group, maybe even a little tighter. No flyers, super easy to load! So far I believe for me this is the way to go. I can't wait to actually get to te range and sand bag it and chronograph. The 250 SST's knurled fit good as well so I will be testing them as well and boing up the charge to see what she'll do.
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Post by sw on Nov 28, 2009 20:21:34 GMT -5
My sabotless shooting has been in 45 and 40 cal PacNor barrels with smokeless powder. a Wad between the powder and bullet helps accuracy in my case and a # of other people's. There doesn't seem to be much difference whether it is a vege wad or a wool wad .
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