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Post by bteague on Sept 20, 2009 13:18:55 GMT -5
I bought a new Knight Disc Extreme in July.BH209 is the only powder i have used in th rifle.I normally clean after every session.Last weekend I fired 6 shots.My son and his family stopped by.So i put it away and forgot to clean it.BIG MISTAKE.There was just as much rust as any powder i have ever used.The barrel is actually pitted.Im so disappointed in myself and bh 209.Actually im disgusted.After all the hype about this powder.I will use up what I have.But i will not waste the money on it after that.IF YOU ARE USING BH209 KEEP A CLOSE WATCH!!!!!!.It may buy you a day or two be fore you clean.But i would not go much longer.Billy
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Post by grouse on Sept 20, 2009 14:01:20 GMT -5
Any metal will rust. Moisture is making the barrel rust not the powder. What are you using to treat your barrel with? Is your gun blued or SS?
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Post by bteague on Sept 20, 2009 14:13:51 GMT -5
I use Hoppes 9 to clean and then oil.The gun is blued.My house is climate controlled so moisture should not be a problem.Unless pwder is absorbing it.All the hype says it will not.But im not so sure now.Maybe not as much or as quick.At this point i really do not see the advantage of BH209.Billy
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Post by kevin k on Sept 20, 2009 14:24:11 GMT -5
why not it costs more and you get less what a deal might be a little faster but not much only plus i see is no crud ring. kevin k
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Post by grouse on Sept 20, 2009 14:26:16 GMT -5
Hoppe's is fine to clean your barrel. It's not a good choice at all to preserve or protect against rust. EEZOX for the barrel, and remoil for the outside or even Break Free CLP.
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Post by bteague on Sept 20, 2009 14:29:45 GMT -5
MY POINT IS THEY HYPE THIS STUFF TO NOT RUST.IT DOES!!
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Post by whyohe on Sept 20, 2009 14:34:44 GMT -5
IMO any thing that leaves an ash will absorb moisture. the less sulfur makes it slower for rust to form. but i think the big benefit is like what grouse said no crud ring and the residue is not as hard or as much as others so easier to load after shots and less cleaning ( if any) between shots.
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Post by grouse on Sept 20, 2009 18:56:34 GMT -5
MY POINT IS THEY HYPE THIS STUFF TO NOT RUST.IT DOES!! Where did you read that at? |
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Post by bteague on Sept 20, 2009 20:22:51 GMT -5
it says so right on the bottle "non corrosive"
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Post by grouse on Sept 20, 2009 20:31:12 GMT -5
it says so right on the bottle "non corrosive" I understand your frustration and hope you get your ML corrected. Here's the problem i think alot of people dont understand. BH209 is non corrosive in your barrel. But, soon as moisture comes and sticks to the residue in your barrel all bets off. This is no different with smokeless powders. The powder is non corrosive until moisture gets in it. I would try cleaning with Hoppe's then run a dry patch down after wards. Then apply a good oil protectant and see if you see the same results. Of course you got to get the barrel cleaned and free of rust now first. BTW- Keep in mind the moisture could of got in the barrel at the range after your last shot. I'm sure the humidity is bad in Arkansas. |
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Post by bteague on Sept 20, 2009 20:45:23 GMT -5
I have been shooting for over 40 years .i have never had a center fire rifle bore rust.I never clean them until the season is over .Hell I have left them in my safe for over a year not one has ever rusted.My muzzleloader rusted in less than a week!BH209 may not absorb moisture as fast as some other subs.But i am convinced that it will absorb moisture.For the price i will use 777 or pyrodex atleast i know what to expect from these.I have one bottle of BH209 left.When its gone its gone for good.IMO its not worth the price.But i did learn a lesson.Billy
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Post by grouse on Sept 20, 2009 20:53:05 GMT -5
I have been shooting for over 40 years .i have never had a center fire rifle bore rust.I never clean them until the season is over .Hell I have left them in my safe for over a year not one has ever rusted.My muzzleloader rusted in less than a week!BH209 may not absorb moisture as fast as some other subs.But i am convinced that it will absorb moisture.For the price i will use 777 or pyrodex atleast i know what to expect from these.I have one bottle of BH209 left.When its gone its gone for good.IMO its not worth the price.But i did learn a lesson.Billy 777 does a fine job as well. Good Luck Hunting this year. |
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Post by reloader on Sept 29, 2009 12:51:58 GMT -5
This is a debate on many forums. BH209 WILL RUST YOUR BBL.
I nearly ruined a brand new Omega with BH209 due to their bogus claims. I shot the rifle and left it in my gun room for one week before cleaning, something I've done many times with 777 with no ill effects or rust issues. The bbl was full of rust and pitted. I was able to lap it and remove all but some minor pits near the breech.
I called Western Powders, they gave me an apology, sent me some cleaning supplies, and said they were going to have a meeting to discuss these issues that have been coming up.
The bottom line is they give false advertisement leading consumers to believe this is as user friendly as a smokeless MLer.
If you treat this just as any other BP sub, it has no equal. I love it, but I am very disappointed in that initial experience as well as the fact that they never changed the advertising.
Anyway, it cleans easier than any other sub and performs better, so I'll keep using it. After a ranges session, clean it like it were 777 and you'll be fine.
Have a Good One,
Reloader
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Post by artjr338wm on Oct 9, 2009 18:14:18 GMT -5
Reloader, thanks for the heads up. I am a huge fan of BH209, but as a rule with out exception when shooting ANY BP SUB, I always instantly after my last shot of the day is taken remove the B-plug drop it in a jar of Big Ed's Red and then run a patch heavily soaked with Break-free up and down the bore until I feel it is well coated to prevent any rust from forming.
Real bummer that BH209 will rust your bore. I wonder what substance in its makeup causes it to rust so quickly? I do not think it has any sulfur in it, so what is in it that "sucks the moisture" out of the air?
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rogo
Button Buck
Posts: 17
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Post by rogo on Oct 10, 2009 17:50:45 GMT -5
READ THE INFO ON THE JUG!!!! The powder will not cause rust! The residue formed after you fire BH209 is what causes the rust. The residue will absorb moisture. It says so on the jug. They also recommend that you clean your rifle as soon as you can. Go to www.blackhorn209.com and read the info there and maybe you will understand more about it. |
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Post by whyohe on Oct 10, 2009 18:14:26 GMT -5
from the buckhorn web sight
Blackhorn 209 is noncorrosive and virtually free of solid residue. Only a thin film of soot remains in the barrel, which will not harm your muzzleloader. There is no need to clean your barrel immediately after use. However, as with all firearms, we recommend using at least one wet patch of solvent after shooting to protect your barrel from moisture.
but if you click on down load brochure this is what it says so you might have a case!http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf
Immediate Cleaning Not Necessary
Blackhorn 209 is noncorrosive and virtually free of solid
residue so there is no need to clean your barrel immediately
after use. Only a thin film of soot remains in the barrel, which
DOES NOT absorb moisture or harm your muzzleloader
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Post by artjr338wm on Oct 10, 2009 20:45:29 GMT -5
rogo and any other interested parties, if you have not already read my last post to my thread, go there and please do so. No where on my jug of BH209 does it say anything about the need for cleaning or swabbing asap after your done shooting.
I do not see how anyone especially a reloader such as myself who is intimately familiar with noncorrosive smokeless powders after reading the information on a jug of BH209 could not come away with the firm understanding and belief that BH209 is noncorrosive just like regular smokeless powder.
I bought my BH209 containors less than a year ago OTC from Cabelas.
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Post by lanenebraska on Oct 10, 2009 20:57:25 GMT -5
My experience with BH209:
I have used BH209 since it was available, with no sign of rust at all. I use a SS Knight Disc Elite. Left it fouled for the entire Nebraska season, from sight-in in early November-Jan 31. NEVER cleaned it. Shot 5 deer. Left it loaded in the garage for 2weeks in a cheap walmart plastic gun case. Fired it into a doe at 45yards. Finally cleaned some time in Feb.....Not a speck of rust=mirror bore.
I've been out to the range this year(Sep-14). Fired about 25 shots. Haven't cleaned it yet....it's still in the cheap old gun case in my garage. And I'm not the least bit worried about it.
I don't own a gun safe or dehumidifier.
For me, BH209 is just the same as smokeless powder, Non-Corrosive. The extremely light residue left in the bore does Not attract moisture at all.
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Post by sabotloader on Oct 10, 2009 23:28:17 GMT -5
artjr338wm BH is a smokeless progressive burning powder, but it is not a smoleless powder that we normally deal with it is not Nitro-Cell based powder. Western Powders has changed their stance on corrosion and on the new bottle of BH-209 it is so labled...  |
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Post by blackhawk7204 on Oct 11, 2009 14:48:42 GMT -5
Yep, that's exactly what my jug says too. Purchased at Bass Pro about 2 weeks ago.
Shot 8 loads in a row this morning, last shot loaded as slick as the first.
Too bad it started raining just as I was getting my new scope dialed in.
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Post by sabotloader on Oct 11, 2009 15:07:45 GMT -5
General information...
If you call Western they will attest to this problem and from the information I got from them it is not being restricted just to blued guns in their instructions.
They have been seeing and hearing about this problem for several months now and have modified their instructions on the new bottles and their instructions at Western to notify people that this problem can happen if exposed to the right circumstances.
Don @ Western had a very detailed email that verified findings that the residule soot left by BH in the bore could attract moisture and in any unprotected bore is suseptible to rusting if moisture is being collected.
He did not give or estimate a 'time' that it might take to see these problems and I got the feeling it was happening in only a small number of cases, but as the popularity of BH increases those random cases will rise. The complaints and cases they have seen and recieved are a concern to them.
Also remember the the active ingredient in BH is not Nitrocellulose as in normal smokeless powders it is Nitrate ester.
He emphasized again the powder by itself is not corrosive.
And for my part - I think the powder is a great product, just to expensive for me to do much shooting with. And I would certainly follow Westerns new instructions if I were using it.
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