new to smokeless ML need advice on load size

[brushcreek]

hey everyone I have a smokeless ML10- II that I need to work up a load for.  I am going to start with IMR 4198 powder and 230 grain smackdown xr sabots.  how many grains should I start with? or if anyone has other load advice i'm all ears.  I hear Hodgdon 4198 shoots good with this gun but I have not been able to find any.  thanks

[hunter]

some people had ignition problems with 4198 and light bullets. I used 67 gr of 4198 behind tight fitting 250 gr bullets with no ignition problems. you will need to keep a 2 handed loading pressure with light bullets in the stock savage

[brushcreek]

thanks what does 2 handed loading pressure mean? I am new to this

[hunter]

By that I mean that the bullet-sabot combination needs to be tight enough that it takes 2 hands on the ramrod to push the bullet down the barrel.
If the bullet-sabot goes down the barrel easy with 1 hand light bullets would sometimes misfire. a .458 bullet in a black crushed rib sabot worked well for me.

[brushcreek]

that makes sense thank you very much

[billc]

I have not heard of this bullet/sabot being used in a smokeless ML. Not saying it won't work, I have had good luck with Harvester and MMP smokeless sabots.

[brushcreek]

thanks for the information billc. what kind of powder do you use?

[ET]

Brushcreek

I have hesitated responding to your post for several reasons. First off using bullet/sabots that are not designed for higher pressures do not work well. Mention of using 4198 powder with a 230gr bullet load is out of the norm. 4198 is a slower burning powder usually used with heavier bullets in the 300gr range. So here problems with lower temps can affect loads with much lighter bullets.

I would first recommend in checking out your 10ML-II. Remove the breech plug and check the flame channel (pathway) to vent liner is fully open. Check vent liner for orifice size that should not exceed .035 in my opinion. While the breech plug is out, run a bullet/sabot down the bore looking for any loose spots, especially about 4” from the breech plug.
If this happens to be a new 10ML-II the bore has a protective coating that needs to be cleaned out. By making sure your 10ML-II is in proper working order the better it will perform.

Not sure what velocities per specific bullet weight you’re expecting? This would help for powder and amount recommendations.
Keep in mind that smokeless powder does not respond the same as black powder substitutes.

[dannoboone]

I have been searching for how the XR bullets are constructed.
So far, I've found nothing. Are they merely copper coated, or
are they actually jacketed?

There is a method to light up all but the very slowest powder
charges which would work for either 4198, but I hesitate to
recommend it for a newbie.

[brushcreek]

thanks guys does anyone have a powder and bullet combination that they would recommend?  sounds like I need to hold off on the IMR 4198 

[cuda]

All I have used in my 10MLL-ll 50cal is 69gr of IMR4198 a BCR sabot and a .458hp Hornady and a Win 209. My gun is all stock except the breech plug it has a carbide vent liner. The best I have shot with it at 100yds is .452 3 shot group. It is a true one shot deer gun. The stock screws need to stay tight and not removed. Each time they are the point of impact will move and it is like starting over. I remove my breech plug out of the open bolt with a socket and swivel.

[dannoboone]

Brushcreek, do you have any other powders such as VV N110, 4759,
5744, RL7?

[deertroy1]

I have no experience with 230gr bullets but N110 works great for me with both 250gr and 300gr bullets and Harvester sabots! I load to about 2200 fps and this combo is deadly on our Canadian whitetails.

[billc]

Jun 10, 2023 21:39:02 GMT -5 brushcreek said:

thanks for the information billc. what kind of powder do you use?

In my 10 MI II I used 68 gr H4198 remington 0.458 300 gr with Harvester black crush rib.

[brushcreek]

Jun 12, 2023 12:36:06 GMT -5 dannoboone said:

Brushcreek, do you have any other powders such as VV N110, 4759,
5744, RL7?

i do not.  is it best to get several powders and try them all in my rifle?

[ET]

Brushcreek

Here is a load copy from the 10ML-II manual.
I would avoid trying 4227 powder as others have posted ignition issues.
As for sabot, because you are a new comer, I would suggest trying MMP sabots.
Here HPH-24 is a looser fit, HPH-12 is a tighter fit.
For primer Savage recommends Win. 209 primer.
Hopefully this will get you started.

.

[brushcreek]

awesome thanks ET

[sw]

If I were to go back to a 10ML2, I’d shoot a bonded 250 Shockwave (lightly knurled), the supplied sabot of a MMP short orHPH12 and 42-44g of VV110. Win 209s and clean the barrel with a MLing cleaner (T/C 13 or another, non-petroleum based cleaner). This load is very clean, fast, extremely temp insensitive, very accurate, ignites very reliably, etc. The velocity difference between 10F and 80F is ~50’/sec.