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Post by harley222 on Sept 13, 2022 13:50:50 GMT -5
I have read the posts here for years but never registered. I have been a member over on the Modern Muzzleloader forum for awhile now, where I am also posting this thread in hopes of gaining as much info as possible. I am guessing quite a few of you are registered on both. I have been shooting muzzleloaders for a number of years now (grew up in IA, which has an awesome late muzzleloader season) and have lived in IL for the past 28 years, while still hunting IA each year, not cheap. IL is also a great state for muzzleloader hunting since they only allow shotgun, muzzleloader, or pistol. Single shot straight walls will be legal as of Jan 1st, 2023, but I will still be strictly muzzleloader/pistol deer hunting. The wait is almost over for my new .45 Rem Ultimate Conversion. The rifle will have a new Brux 28" barrel with a 1:20 twist, a two stage Timney trigger, a Leupold VX-5 HD 4-20x52, plus the original Rem 700 receiver and stock. And I believe the ASG Ignition system will be the one installed. Now, I have been combing the threads here, and at Doug's and Hank's smokeless forums looking for various load combinations/recommendations. I have the following powders: IMR4198, H322, and N120. As for .452 bullets I have the following in 300gr: Fury Bonded, Hornady XTP Magnum, Speer Deep Curl. I have had a Savage ML II for a number of years, but now that I am going bullet to bore, a smaller diameter bullet, and a barrel that will handle a stiffer charge I would like your input on your most accurate/impact loads for deer anywhere from 30-300 yards+. I can tell you that I will be staying away from Parker bullets based upon my experience with them, and how their terminal performance is not what I'm looking for. I am open to any other bullets that you might suggest. I have heard very good things about the Pittmans as well. I would like to stick to the powders that I have listed above however. My builder suggested 80grns of H322 wit the Furys that I have, and that is probably where I will start. Ideally, I would like to see a good wound channel without it looking like a bomb went off. Over the years the 300gr Barnes Originals that I used with my Savage and my Rem Ultimate were tack drivers, but I am guessing they never really mushroomed well because they didn't usually leave the best blood trails. But they were exceptionally accurate and did the job. And before that I always used Powerbelts with my CVA's and round balls with more traditional muzzleloaders. Let me know what your starting/max charge would be with the powders I have listed and any 275/300gr bullets. Thank you all very much for any info you are willing to provide.
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Post by cuda on Sept 13, 2022 18:06:32 GMT -5
I did a Stevens 200 with a MacGowan 45cal barrel and I use 69gr of IMR4198 lubed wad and a .451 290gr Barnes TEZ and a Win 209. I live in IOWA to I also have my 10ML-ll 50cal too.
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Post by billc on Sept 13, 2022 20:00:18 GMT -5
I use 67 gr H4198 with a 0.458 300 gr Fury and a 0.060 veggie wad. However, I full form not bore riding.
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Post by dannoboone on Sept 14, 2022 10:51:45 GMT -5
First of all, welcome to the board! With a 300gr bullet, 80gr H322 seems awful stiff. The barrel MAY take the pressure but what about your shoulder? Is there a brake on your barrel? I would start out at 70gr. I do use H322, but it is in a duplex load used with copper bullets. N120 is a great clean burning powder. However, increases in grains can quickly give too much pressure. You probably will/or have gotten that warning at Modern Muzzleloader. I have used the TGinPA's (RIP) pressure traces for load development linked here: dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/14868/tginpa-pressure-trace-loads-hyperlinkedIt takes awhile to get through to find a load, but it has helped me a lot. P.S. Iowa allowed straight walled cartridges a few years ago, but I never, not once, felt restricted with my .45 front stuffers! |
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Post by sideshow on Sept 14, 2022 10:59:02 GMT -5
You didnt say your barrel contour or if this is a barrel nut gun or a shoulder build ?? This is most important to know .
I have to agree with dannoboone that the 80gr load of 322 and a 300gr bullet is a Very Stiff Load no matter the barrel which must be a shoulder build !!! Jeez.....that will clear sinuses ......
First thing you Should Know is many loads youll see like for a barrel nut 45 of 65gr of H-4198 with a 275gr land rider = 2600 to 2650fps in a 26" barrel is good to 400+ yds easily . 62gr of H4198 is a great load for the 300 Aeromax Pittman too in a Brux 1 in 20 twist . Thats a 1 ragged hole shooter in that Brux and also 400+ yds capable for most everything in N. America with a group that will fit on the palm of your hand Out There . Its also closer to a max safe pressure zone of 45,000 psi . Hodgen or IMR 4198 are pretty well interchangeable . 60gr of N-120 with a HLB saboted 200gr SST 40 bullet is a 2800fps load too good for 300 yds if accurate for you . You dont really Have To load these guns max all the time as they are Extremely Powerfull even loaded lighter . Id try to avoid that "speed trap loads" if i were you . A 300gr bullet at 3000 to 3100fps is just not needed for what youve described . The first deer you take with that 65gr load of 4198 and a 275 Fury youll say "Oh My God" , i promise !!! Stay off the shoulder is my first clue given....IF you wanna eat much of that deer...... Hotter loads get WORSE . It Will Vaporize a coyote too......lol .
Higher bc bullets > 300 are your friend as well
The pistol bullets make good foulers or target use cheaper . I prefer the easier to size Speer . Do Not use the Mag Hornady XTP bullets as they are Way too hard .
Furys are good bullets and Pittmans are even better in the hard core series . For now id stick to Furys to get used to sizing and feel as the season is close . The bc isnt as good as a Pittman but theyre alot cheaper and preform very good on game .
Mtn Monkey on MML is a awesome fellow to learn from . Follow him there . His advice is golden for a 45 as a hunter who loves accuracy . For 300 yds you wont need more than he consistantly suggests as a load . Those Northern Precision bullets he is testing are also very good bullets . For practicle guidance starting out and beyond Mtn Monkey is a wealth of info and field experiance with a 45 . The man loves them !!! If youve been there long its a name you know . Welcome here too .
Ps .-- for those longer shots a scope level installed is a good idea too . Enjoy !!!
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Post by harley222 on Sept 14, 2022 14:28:29 GMT -5
You didnt say your barrel contour or if this is a barrel nut gun or a shoulder build ?? This is most important to know . I have to agree with dannoboone that the 80gr load of 322 and a 300gr bullet is a Very Stiff Load no matter the barrel which must be a shoulder build !!! Jeez.....that will clear sinuses ...... First thing you Should Know is many loads youll see like for a barrel nut 45 of 65gr of H-4198 with a 275gr land rider =2600 to 2650fps in a 26" barrel is good to 400+ yds easily . 62gr of H4198 is a great load for the 300 Aeromax Pittman too in a Brux 1 in 20 twist . Thats a 1 ragged hole shooter in that Brux and also 400+ yds capable for most everything in N. America with a group that will fit on the palm of your hand Out There . Its also closer to a max safe pressure zone of 45,000 psi . Hodgen or IMR 4198 are pretty well interchangeable . 60gr of N-120 with a HLB saboted 200gr SST 40 bullet is a 2800fps load too good for 300 yds if accurate for you . You dont really Have To load these guns max all the time as they are Extremely Powerfull even loaded lighter . Id try to avoid that "speed trap loads" if i were you . A 300gr bullet at 3000 to 3100fps is just not needed for what youve described . The first deer you take with that 65gr load of 4198 and a 275 Fury youll say "Oh My God" , i promise !!! Stay off the shoulder is my first clue given....IF you wanna eat much of that deer...... Hotter loads get WORSE . It Will Vaporize a coyote too......lol . Higher bc bullets > 300 are your friend as well The pistol bullets make good foulers or target use cheaper . I prefer the easier to size Speer . Do Not use the Mag Hornady XTP bullets as they are Way too hard . Furys are good bullets and Pittmans are even better in the hard core series . For now id stick to Furys to get used to sizing and feel as the season is close . The bc isnt as good as a Pittman but theyre alot cheaper and preform very good on game . Mtn Monkey on MML is a awesome fellow to learn from . Follow him there . His advice is golden for a 45 as a hunter who loves accuracy . For 300 yds you wont need more than he consistantly suggests as a load . Those Northern Precision bullets he is testing are also very good bullets . For practicle guidance starting out and beyond Mtn Monkey is a wealth of info and field experiance with a 45 . The man loves them !!! If youve been there long its a name you know . Welcome here too . Ps .-- for those longer shots a scope level installed is a good idea too . Enjoy !!! This is not a barrel nut build, will ask my builder what the barrel dimensions are. |
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Post by harley222 on Sept 14, 2022 14:33:12 GMT -5
First of all, welcome to the board! With a 300gr bullet, 80gr H322 seems awful stiff. The barrel MAY take the pressure but what about your shoulder? Is there a brake on your barrel? I would start out at 70gr. I do use H322, but it is in a duplex load used with copper bullets. N120 is a great clean burning powder. However, increases in grains can quickly give too much pressure. You probably will/or have gotten that warning at Modern Muzzleloader. I have used the TGinPA's (RIP) pressure traces for load development linked here: dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/14868/tginpa-pressure-trace-loads-hyperlinkedIt takes awhile to get through to find a load, but it has helped me a lot. P.S. Iowa allowed straight walled cartridges a few years ago, but I never, not once, felt restricted with my .45 front stuffers! Thanks-I tried opening it originally and I had to ask permission. It now opens for me. And yes, I have hunted the past few years during 1st gun in IA using my Henry 45-70 and my 500 Automax. Was fun to harvest some deer with rifles I haven't been able to use before, but I want to get back to hunting the longer late muzzleloader season, in addition to reaching out much further. |
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Post by sideshow on Sept 14, 2022 14:49:15 GMT -5
Harley222 i know by the builders load its a shoulder build of probably a 5 inch shank as popular today and 1.2 or 1.25 inches depending on the bp diameter and/or a desire to save half a pound .
Regardless if i were you id take heed to what i wrote . I didnt tug your taffy .......
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Post by sideshow on Sept 15, 2022 13:56:27 GMT -5
Harley222 i know by the builders load its a shoulder build of probably a 5 inch shank as popular today and 1.2 or 1.25 inches depending on the bp diameter and/or a desire to save half a pound . Regardless if i were you id take heed to what i wrote . I didnt tug your taffy ....... For the load you shared in that rifle with suitable $2,500+ optics , a drop card or kestral , lots of practice on that trigger it should shoot accurately to 800yds anyhow . If it were 1 in 18 twist with 325s+ , a 1000yds with more practice . But i wouldnt do these shots on game . But paper doesnt bleed either . I dont shoot hayburner Safari loads like that shared by you but id Guess that it coinsides with Hankins 78gr 4198 load with a 300gr bullet for a barrel like i described in its fat shank traveling 3050 fps or so . Thats a guess mind you not confirmation or encouragement to use that data . It Requires some Really Expensive stuff to play in that area of distance and power . Not for me . It will eat $1,000 and under scopes like candy up there at those energy levels . Even the highEST dollar ones croak with regularity . Be ready for that . Im not trying to be a AS* , this IS the Reality of Superman loads for a hunting weight SML . You dont sound like a shack shooter either during deer season . With just a tree to steady shots with ...Maybe ?? 400+ yard loads are Plenty to handle accurately under poor field conditions . The deer will be just as dead and your equipment isnt pounded on near as bad . And youre still able to tell a 338 win mag to sit down , shut up , and take notes . Just Sayin....... |
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Post by sideshow on Sept 17, 2022 6:03:56 GMT -5
If you still wanna chase that load or other big boomers like it check out a thread to go along with those pressure traces dannoboone steered you to called Gordons Reloading Tool in this section on Dougs board . It will help keep you safe as long as you pay attention to what your doing loading that rifle . People are gonna be really curious to what you got there and have no clue to the power of the pipe bomb should a mistake be made by their distractions . A double load is the real primary reason for that fat shank to Hopefully keep you ALIVE in the event of OOPS .....it happens . Just how big of a bomb do you want to build with that superman load ?? NEVER Forget That . Mistakes Happen !!! MARK THAT RAMROD !!! Its also OK to be A Bit Deaf and Rude When Shooting these guns around people . Better Safe than Sorry........
Even if its a double load of powder Only and it blows you clean off the chair as it bulges that barrel its YOUR FAULT .....never THEIRS ......
ALWAYS Command Your Space !!!
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