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primers
Aug 8, 2009 22:18:14 GMT -5
Post by yankee on Aug 8, 2009 22:18:14 GMT -5
i have about 5-6 different flavors of 209 primers remington 209 keanbores win 209 fed 209 fiochi 209 rio 209 to mention a few, has anyone experimented with these options other than the win 209?? i was going to set up a bit of an experiment, the fiochis are a hottt primer so is the fed 209A just curious what effect if any it may have on groupings
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Post by grouse on Aug 9, 2009 8:58:02 GMT -5
If you are using BH209 i would stick with the Federals. If not, it wont matter. Here are some velocities with a small caliber bullet with just a primer being fired thru a chrono. No powder.
Winchester 209ML ........................221 f.p.s.
Winchester 209 Triple Seven ML.....244 f.p.s.
Remington 209 Kleanbore ML ........318 f.p.s.
Std. Winchester No. 209A ..............336 f.p.s.
Std. Remington No. 209 .................341 f.p.s.
Cheddite No. 209 ...........................347 f.p.s.
Federal No. 209A ...........................381 f.p.s.
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primers
Aug 9, 2009 10:27:49 GMT -5
Post by jims on Aug 9, 2009 10:27:49 GMT -5
Grouse: Do you know what speed for CCIm's? Thanks
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primers
Aug 9, 2009 10:46:07 GMT -5
Post by yankee on Aug 9, 2009 10:46:07 GMT -5
thats good info to know, has anyone done a c.u.p or l.u.p test to see if these different primers change your bore pressures any??
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primers
Aug 9, 2009 19:51:11 GMT -5
Post by davewolf on Aug 9, 2009 19:51:11 GMT -5
I haven't done any tests, but I love CCI-M primers. I've had them wet--soaked and I've had them out for hours in the heat when hunting groundhogs. Not one misfire...that's what has been important to me...and they seem to be accurate as any I've shot. Have a great day! Dave
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primers
Aug 10, 2009 20:13:54 GMT -5
Post by grouse on Aug 10, 2009 20:13:54 GMT -5
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primers
Aug 11, 2009 13:21:35 GMT -5
Post by hubby11 on Aug 11, 2009 13:21:35 GMT -5
From grouse' link, they also tested these two primers.
CCI 209M.........................379 f.p.s.
Remington STS.................338 f.p.s.
Note the CCI 209Ms are pretty hot, second only to the federal 209A. My understanding is that the STS generates less pressure, though has a hot flame. I want to try them to see if they are any cleaner than the CCIs, which although very consistant with the BH 209, requires a lot of clean up in my Omega.
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primers
Aug 11, 2009 17:56:02 GMT -5
Post by wilmsmeyer on Aug 11, 2009 17:56:02 GMT -5
I've used only FED209A's for many years. Haven't even tried the others so I can not compare.
I can tell you that I've built loads in both BP and smokeless around these primers cause they always work (others may as well) Good, accurate loads.
As a side note, 1 of my buddies uses nothing but CCI magnum and 1 uses Winchesters. They have the same attachment to those primers as I do the FED's. So...pick one and build loads around it cause they all have seemed to work in both BP and smokeless in our group. All of us have logged 1000's of shots in BP and smokeless.
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primers
Aug 12, 2009 0:18:04 GMT -5
Post by yankee on Aug 12, 2009 0:18:04 GMT -5
i have built my load, just curious as to the different primers, MY CONCERN maybe a mute concern is this, myself as a seasoned shotshell reloader of 30yrs experience i know the pressure difference in just changing a primer in a certain load can be very dangerous, pressure spikes recorded in l.u.p and c.u.p or
are there to prove the spikes exist now with the added muzzleloaders of the smokeless variety and with the new blackpowder subs are these guns designed to handle these spikes in pressure if theres any at all. please note i to have shot thousands of rounds, always with a win 209, but i hear people at the club and online saying they shoot this primer and that, it peaked my curiosity is all, would hate to see someone assume and get seriously hurt, i could be wayyy off track here, im asking, in a shotshell i know it;s highly dangerous
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primers
Aug 12, 2009 5:26:46 GMT -5
Post by whyohe on Aug 12, 2009 5:26:46 GMT -5
IMO it depends on the powder you want to use. from what i hear the BH 209 is pretty hard to ignite. also i know i have had some trouble with the american pioneer powder and would probably use a hotter primer. i used T-7 for years in the pellet form and was recomended to me to use Fed 209As and i had great accuracy.
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primers
Aug 15, 2009 5:41:01 GMT -5
Post by davewolf on Aug 15, 2009 5:41:01 GMT -5
Not to change the subject, but how did american pioneer powder work for you? I tried the Shockey's Gold and APP and had terrible results at 100-yards with both. Just wanted to see how you fared. Have a great day! Dave
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primers
Aug 15, 2009 11:32:47 GMT -5
Post by whyohe on Aug 15, 2009 11:32:47 GMT -5
it was my dads gun and it didnt do so well either
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primers
Aug 15, 2009 18:33:36 GMT -5
Post by mike3132 on Aug 15, 2009 18:33:36 GMT -5
Not to change the subject, but how did american pioneer powder work for you? I tried the Shockey's Gold and APP and had terrible results at 100-yards with both. Just wanted to see how you fared. Have a great day! Dave Dave, I did a test with APP and Shockeys Gold. ff didn't shoot very well for me but fff shot fair. I shot it over a chrony and the APP had speed variations with the same load of over 400 fps. I did find a decent load of 70 grains fff and a 250 grain bullet. Mike
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primers
Aug 15, 2009 21:33:57 GMT -5
Post by davewolf on Aug 15, 2009 21:33:57 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I actually poured my APP out of the vials and use them for BH209. The Shockey sticks actually out preformed the powder for accuracy, but not much. Still like the BH209 and will continue to use it until you guys find a cheaper brand that shoots as good! Have a great day! Dave
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primers
Sept 9, 2009 20:06:56 GMT -5
Post by artjr338wm on Sept 9, 2009 20:06:56 GMT -5
FWIW, I have I am on my second 10oz bottle of BH209 and I have used two kinds of 209 primers and tried three kinds of 209 primers. The results break down as fallows:
<>Federal 209As would not work in my Encore 209x50. By that I mean that once loaded would not allow my Encore to close. I think it is safe to assume the Fed 209As are simply to long or longer than all the other 209s I tried.
<>Winchester 209M Worked perfectly and gave excellent accuracy out of my Encore.
<>CCI 209M same results as the Winchesters.
Zero problems with eithor in my encore and BH 209. As a matter of fact it is of no small wonder that I have using only Winchester 209As, shot my Encore around 2000 times (1500x using Pyrodex pellets and about 500 with FFF-777) and never once IIRC did I suffer a single misfire or hange fire.
As I have over 2500 of the Winchesters I use them.
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primers
Sept 10, 2009 23:33:28 GMT -5
Post by rabbit on Sept 10, 2009 23:33:28 GMT -5
Anyone familiar with what powders work well with Musket caps? Here in Washington we’re not able to use the 209’s.
Last year I was using 100gr Pyrodex pellets with CCI Musket caps in my LRH, had no problems with the pellets, but I’m thinking a loose powder may be all around better.
Thankfully this year they’ve lifted the restriction on jacketed sabots which will be a nice change, now I can tryout those Red Hot Spitzer boattail sabots by Barnes.
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primers
Sept 11, 2009 4:53:21 GMT -5
Post by wilmsmeyer on Sept 11, 2009 4:53:21 GMT -5
My old Thunderhawk has the musket nipple. I had been getting hang fires with the #11 caps.....and Pyrodex. After putting in the bigger nipple and shooting from the bench everything was fine. Then I went hunting with a gun loaded the night before and shot at a buck at 90 yds away....hang fire.....somehow I 10 holed the buck...my 1st ML buck.
After that I used nothing but black powder and have never had a hang fire again. My experience with Subs are mostly with pyrodex pre 1998 and some clean shot in early 2000's in my knight. All produced erradic velocities no matter how I lit them up. If I "smoke" I only use ffg or fffg goex black powder. No probs.....A little less speed, a little more mess and a whole bunch more confidence.
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primers
Sept 11, 2009 13:06:16 GMT -5
Post by whyohe on Sept 11, 2009 13:06:16 GMT -5
if you are using pyrodex pellets, make sure you put the right end of pellet down first for best results,BUT I'd think loose would be better and reg BP the best for best chance of no hang fires.
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primers
Sept 11, 2009 23:45:43 GMT -5
Post by boarhog on Sept 11, 2009 23:45:43 GMT -5
I have a short TC Grey Hawk. Years ago, I gave up on using subs in it. Just couldn't get reliable bangs. Even with BP, I tap the barrel several times to work some powder into the small powder drum. I was hoping to learn that BH209 would be better, but apparently not? It uses #11 caps.
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