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Post by Dave W on Jul 21, 2009 19:18:12 GMT -5
Very impressive, especially off a wobbly rest. First impressions seem to say the wait was worth it!
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Post by dougedwards on Jul 21, 2009 21:32:29 GMT -5
Richard.........Tom Post didn't get as good of accuracy with boat-tails but he didn't experiment much with them. It would stand to reason that a flat tail bullet would seal better but I am not absolutely sure about that. I think there needs to be more tinkering with loads and components to be sure that they won't work in a muzzleloader.
Wilms.......... we have both seen the evolution of the modern smokeless muzzleloader where initially the 50 cal Savage 10ML was on the cutting edge of muzzleloading technology to the present where the same rifle seems almost archaic in just a few short years. It is surely natural that men would want to constantly improve on something or anything and that has been done with the development of the more modern 45, 40, 38 and now 25 caliber smokeless muzzleloaders. However, I have said it before and I will say it again......for my deer hunting tactics and purposes the 50 cal Savage will do anything that any of these other rifles will do and do it just as well. Dead is dead and when I introduce a 300 grain bullet into a whitetail that deer just doesn't move except in a downward motion. I am almost glad that my state doesn't allow this Swinglock during regular muzzleloader season because I love to hunt with my Savage.
I for years have wanted a custom made centerfire rifle where I could make choices but I knew that I had not the expertise to develop one myself. The Swinglock did intrigue me and the more questions that I asked about it the more I became interested. Up to this point I have no regrets but even if I would come to the point that I felt that this new rifle isn't the gun that I thought that I wanted I know that my Savage will not let me down in the field because of my extensive testing and experience with it. That is a good feeling. But not as good as shooting a 75 grain bullet 4000 fps and putting three of them in the same hole. ;D ;D ;D
More testing to come........
Doug
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Post by dougedwards on Jul 21, 2009 21:46:02 GMT -5
DaveD......initially I had also ordered a sizing die because I thought I might be using sized down 6.5mm bullets. The knurled .257 bullets shot so well during testing that I cancelled the sizing die from the order but I kinda wish that I hadn't. The one bullet that I had stuck in the barrel had to be tapped out with a hammer. Now that is tight!
I am new to sabotless shooting and I guess I will learn from my mistakes. But now I have 200 bullets that I can't use unless I purchase a sizing die and that would cost as much as three boxes of bullets but might be worth it in the long haul. This is all great fun but it sure does pound the pocketbook from so many different angles.
Doug
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Post by dougedwards on Jul 24, 2009 19:59:55 GMT -5
Had a rather discouraging day today after somewhat of a good start. I bought some Speer 120 gr bullets and did not knurl them at all and they were extremely hard to push down the bore even without being knurled. Actually I had to tap them down with a hammer. Using 62 gr of Reloader 17 I experienced two misfires out of 4 shots. Also every shot had a delayed ignition like with shooting black powder. I could feel and hear the trigger break before ignition took place. Strangely they grouped ok but 8" to the left. That had me scratching my head. The speeds were excessive leading me to believe that pressures were also excessive. They averaged 3680 fps. Thinking that I needed to relieve pressure I switched to 100 grain Speers that were knurled and had to also tap them down with a hammer and a 3/8" steel rod. Misfires again and delayed ignition. Muzzle speeds increased to 3860 fps. That is way too much. I have an email sent to Tom Post to get his opinion of this but until I know more about what I am doing I will not shoot this load again. This sabotless shooting is much more complicated than I previously thought it would be. Doug
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Post by jims on Jul 24, 2009 20:02:15 GMT -5
For some the sabotless thing works out well, I still am attempting to find the" magic "bullet. Hopefully I will get there also.
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Post by sagittarius on Jul 24, 2009 20:43:10 GMT -5
Doug, Not trying to second guess you but sounds like you need that sizing die or else you're going to ruin your rifling by beating those bullets down with a steel rod. That is, unless it's a light tap.
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Post by dougedwards on Jul 25, 2009 7:15:36 GMT -5
Paul......I did think about that because I had to POUND the bullets down. Tom Post has told me that he used the Hornady Interlocks without much trouble but I think you are right. A sizing die is in order here. There is still the issue of misfires and possibly I have re-assembled the rifle incorrectly. Today I am going to start from scratch and clean the grease from the inside of the breech plug before I assemble things back. But you are right.......I don't want to damange things as a result of my frustrations. Thanks for the help.
Doug
Doug
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Post by jims on Jul 25, 2009 10:06:17 GMT -5
Doug: I know your frustrations. Some bullets are too big, some too small. Maybe we will find the Goldilocks bullet combination that is "just right." To get a die that just works may either need alot of them or a bit of luck. Some say it is easier to size too small and then knurl back up. My die on my .38 is too small it seems, it is difficult at this time to knurl up enough to get them tight enough. I could open up the die but I am hesitant at this time to do that until I have tried different files etc. Keep us posted, yours is so much different than the rest of ours it is interesting.
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Post by dougedwards on Jul 25, 2009 15:02:48 GMT -5
Jims....... we have this in common. We have both chosen the uncharted waters of calibers that have not previously been tested in muzzleloaders. Even though the discovery process may be painful and stressful, I believe that when we finally figure it all out we will have a feeling of accomplishment that eludes those that have taken a more test proven route. How long it will take to get us to that point is a mystery. After speaking with Tom on the phone and disassembling the rifle per his instructions we have discovered that the pressures that were developed from shooting such a heavy load with unusually tight fitting bullets probably increased to over 80,000 psi because the oriface module which acts as a type of vent liner had actually malformed and had to be pounded out with a rod from the muzzle end. I am sending the module back to Tom for his inspection and will be using the one that he had used to test the rifle before it got to my hands. It doesn't take much to drastically raise pressures in these small tubes and I won't be using bullets that have to be forced down the bore again. I could have chosen the proven 45 caliber rifle and I would not have to worry with all of this experimentation and disapointment but there is just something about my personality that can't take the easy way. I have been trying to work on that character flaw for years to no avail. I will be posting the sucesses and failures that I experience along the way in hopes that my experiences might help someone else avoid some frustration. Tom Post had an option to keep testing and experimenting with this particular rifle in an attempt to work out all of the bugs before it got into my hands, but as with anything that is on the cutting edge of discovery, that would have taken some time and I wanted some hands on experience in the process. I am encouraged that I will be able to develop a long range muzzleloader with deer sized bullets. Doug
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Post by kevin k on Jul 25, 2009 15:06:52 GMT -5
from the looks of your 1st round youll figure it out its a real bute of a gun good luck with it. kevin k
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Post by cuda on Sept 10, 2011 9:31:03 GMT -5
I know this is an old thread but is there any way to replace the pictures again? I would like to see them. THANKS!
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Post by shoot2reload on Sept 10, 2011 10:26:42 GMT -5
I know this is an old thread but is there any way to replace the pictures again? I would like to see them. THANKS! +1! As I recall the pics were serious eye-candy!
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Post by Richard on Sept 11, 2011 19:04:10 GMT -5
Doug.............do you have some type of a muzzle guide? You should have something with a hole the size of your bore and extending at least an inch or so...........so your rod is not grinding on the crown? Also, is it my imagination or have the photo's since disappeared from the above posts? All I see are white blocks that say image has been moved or deleted? Richard
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