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Post by rob67 on Oct 18, 2016 18:53:14 GMT -5
I have been using a screw in primer module for about 6 months. This is not my design, its from a guy named Phil that has been using it for about 2 years. The breech plug does not have a bushing or a vent liner in it. I have shot my test plug over 900 times with the same 22 modules. I have never cleaned the plug or modules during this time. I've shot this plug in a .458, .375, and a .308. With the .458 I use about 7% less powder and with the .375 and .308 about 14% less powder to get the same speeds with other ignition systems. Screw in modules have been around for a little while. Single digit spreads are the normal.  My primer modules that fit in a un altered 700 cf bolt.  Some results with a .308 sml with a 4 fps es. |
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Post by 7mmfreak on Oct 18, 2016 20:43:53 GMT -5
I'll attest to those numbers. Been there, seen it. It's a neat design and probably the closest thing to a completely sealed and waterproof system for NC hurricane hunters. Also the closest thing to metallic style flame path. I still need to get you to mod a plug for me. Should have done it while I've been slammed these past few months. I'm just bad at hooking up and getting things done right now.
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Post by mcgowen45 on Oct 18, 2016 21:14:10 GMT -5
Yes the system works. I have been using the same system in my .458 for quite a while now, since Rob was gracious enough to fix me one up for the .458. I can tell it works great. I have never had to clean the modules or the plug since it does not build up carbon at all. and the spreads digits like he said, and by suing less powder or about the same powder as before I have picked up the speed. I love it, and plan to take it to IA, and put it to the test in real cold weather come Dec. using 3031 by itself. I know it will not fail. Thanks rob for helping me out.
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Post by dperry on Oct 18, 2016 21:28:25 GMT -5
Rob, have you got this plug working in your Apex conversion? I'd be interested in testing it out in my 358 that's for sure.
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Post by mtj555 on Oct 19, 2016 0:40:42 GMT -5
Looks good Rob
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Post by rob67 on Oct 19, 2016 5:17:02 GMT -5
Rob, have you got this plug working in your Apex conversion? I'd be interested in testing it out in my 358 that's for sure. It works great in the Apex. I use 6 point modules in it so I can screw them in and out with my fingers. Keith: Just let me know when you get caught up and I'll get you fixed up. |
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Post by bestill on Oct 19, 2016 6:18:44 GMT -5
I have seen a bolt gun with this setup and when loading you have a live primer in place but bolt is removed.
So how does this work with break action gun ?
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Post by edge on Oct 19, 2016 7:37:08 GMT -5
Very interesting, any more details, are they being sold, can the BP be interchanged in any of the current barrels?
edge.
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Post by cuda on Oct 19, 2016 8:37:21 GMT -5
Any pictures of this plug? I to would like more info on this. What size is the hole for the flame to travel? Do you have to screw in a new module for each shoot?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 9:40:46 GMT -5
Nice shooting Rob. Don't you know subcals are inferior?  |
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Post by muznut on Oct 19, 2016 12:07:06 GMT -5
I'm sure they work as said but for me ML season here is in December and temps can be zero or less. I dont want to be fumbling around trying to screw in those modules with frozen fingers so I would prefer a 209 and a vent bushing.
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Post by billyboy on Oct 19, 2016 13:28:13 GMT -5
Please tell us more. So to be considered "Uncapped" to and from your Blind or Stand you remove your Bolt? Can you please show how the primer mates up to the unaltered CF Bolt? |
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Post by sparkman on Oct 19, 2016 15:43:44 GMT -5
Yes!..please...
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Post by rob67 on Oct 19, 2016 20:00:29 GMT -5
Ok lets answer some questions and get things straight.
First off I hate typing so I'll do my best.
I am not a gunsmith or anything of the sort. I love to shoot these sml's.! I do not build guns or sell parts for them. I have helped a few friends out. Thats It.
If you want a custom sml talk to Tom Post, if you want a converted rifle to shoot there are plenty of people out there to do it for you.
I like to try different things, this is why I started using this ignition system. With the custom bullets out there for a .458 it has become boring for me. So I thought lets go sub caliber. I had problems with bushings cracking and primer pockets eroding. Due to the fact that I was abusing, over pressuring the system. I had the chance to shoot this system and see first hand how it worked.
Is it the best? Probably not. But it does not leak or break under high pressure.
Jeff: I haven't given much thought on loading an Apex with a live primer in it. I know that you can load on a used primer/module and change to a live module without loosing powder. Just point the barrel down when doing so.
Edge: As far as I know its not sold anywhere.
All the barrels I have done are interchangeable with an ASG plug. Change the plug and the bolt to a 209 and good to go.
45 Omega: Don't you know all calibers matter. All kidding aside with the current state of this country I think about the crap you have to deal with daily. Stay safe!
Some pics to follow.
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Post by rob67 on Oct 19, 2016 20:15:00 GMT -5
 show how big the module is.  Module in a un altered bolt  Everything else it take to shoot it. |
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Post by motox369 on Oct 19, 2016 20:55:36 GMT -5
Very interesting I love to see new stuff.
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Post by lwh723 on Oct 20, 2016 6:59:23 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Rob.
If 4 or 5 people would be interested in a set, I could see about having a batch run.
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Post by edge on Oct 20, 2016 8:11:20 GMT -5
Very interesting design, always nice to see new ideas coming edge. |
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Post by dperry on Oct 20, 2016 9:43:13 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Rob. If 4 or 5 people would be interested in a set, I could see about having a batch run. Any idea on what kind of Ballpark price we are talking? |
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Post by Dave W on Oct 20, 2016 18:40:18 GMT -5
I might be interested in one for my Ruger.
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Post by lwh723 on Oct 20, 2016 20:08:18 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Rob. If 4 or 5 people would be interested in a set, I could see about having a batch run. Any idea on what kind of Ballpark price we are talking? Probably around $150 for a plug and 20 inserts. |
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Post by gar on Oct 21, 2016 5:05:37 GMT -5
I have seen this also and it is slick with no flame channel as the powder sits on the primer with the vent/bushing removed. That being said you need to empty the gun for transport to be legal so may be a pain for hunting season. The modules hole is big enough for the powder to sit all the way down on the primer.
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Post by cuda on Oct 21, 2016 13:31:09 GMT -5
Would it work with a 209 held in bolt? Then the plug could stay in the barrel and we would just change the screw just like Savage screw. But you do not remove the breech plug to do so. How big is the hole in the screw for the flame channel?
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Post by rangeball on Oct 27, 2016 20:08:48 GMT -5
Been thinking about this alot. Do you think this could be done with a savage plug and would there be any advantage to doing so? You'd need a new bolt head for sure.
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Post by edge on Oct 28, 2016 7:50:07 GMT -5
SNIP. You'd need a new bolt head for sure. Not so sure, if you chamfer or turn the end of the bolts so they fit in the boltface ( ~0.240 dia x ~0.120 deep ) you should be good to go. edge. |
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Post by rangeball on Oct 28, 2016 8:34:26 GMT -5
Good thought.
Do you see any potential limitations? Wouldn't in in essence be like shooting a deeply recessed plug? Does that bring up any red flags? With the longer plug, it sure seems like those shooting the savage plug might see a big jump in ignition potential.
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Post by edge on Oct 28, 2016 9:17:02 GMT -5
Good thought. Do you see any potential limitations? Wouldn't in in essence be like shooting a deeply recessed plug? Does that bring up any red flags? With the longer plug, it sure seems like those shooting the savage plug might see a big jump in ignition potential. IMO, the strength of the threads vs the exposed area for a non lugged action would be your limit. I would say it would depend on how you machined for the insert! If the insert ( I'm guessing ) is a 3/8 bolt and you drilled the BP exposing the entire 3/8 to full pressure then those threads need to hold almost 6k on a 50+kpsi load...that seems high to me. Now if you use a stock Savage plug with the 5/32 diameter hole and that leads to the module then the module only sees about 1k on that load which should be more than plenty safe...IMO You still can recess the front of the plug, but leaving a reasonable web between the recess and the module will protect for excess pressure. edge. |
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Post by rangeball on Oct 28, 2016 10:16:46 GMT -5
Thanks. I was imagining simply removing the bushing and not further recessing. Certainly intriguing, but I'm not in a position (tool and necesarry skill-less) to blaze this trail. I'll gladly follow someone along though |
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Post by Jon on Feb 11, 2017 7:59:49 GMT -5
very interesting would like further info
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Post by buckstuds on Feb 11, 2017 14:13:16 GMT -5
Rob is that a asg plug with the taper part cut off and drilled and tapped and bushing removed. I am thinking of that system in a hinger. One more question, can they be easily unscrewed by hand.
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