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Post by ourway77 on Feb 6, 2016 8:56:56 GMT -5
Just bought a brand new Knight Mountaineer Thumb Hole stock pepper laminate 45 Caliber with a 1-20 twist I would like to know if I can shoot bare bullets out of this rifle Just curious? Really bought it to shoot sabot 40 caliber bullets with Black Horn 209. Lou
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Post by sabotloader on Feb 6, 2016 9:32:24 GMT -5
Just bought a brand new Knight Mountaineer Thumb Hole stock pepper laminate 45 Caliber with a 1-20 twist I would like to know if I can shoot bare bullets out of this rifle Just curious? Really bought it to shoot sabot 40 caliber bullets with Black Horn 209. Lou Sure you can if you can find a bare bullet that will fit. Or if you purchase a bullet that can be resized downward to fit the bore. Seems a loot of people have been using Parker BE's or E Max bullets for this task. They are .451 diameter and have a thin .015 Copper jacket - good for re-sizing. |
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Post by bestill on Feb 6, 2016 9:41:49 GMT -5
With factory gun its hard to bump bullet into rifling with recommended loads.
If you knurl the 275 be and shoot120 volume of blackhorn they will work.
Much more bullet than that gets tricky
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 6, 2016 12:28:17 GMT -5
Wow, for a guy that did want to spend $45 on a bare primer conversion because he had spent so much on SMLs you sure spent a bundle on that one  Yes you can shoot sabotless. I shoot Parker 275gr BEs and upto a Sierra 458 300gr in my Knight 45 1-20. I resize the Sierra in 2 steps to fit my bore. Nosler 250gr Sporting Handgun bullets also shoot well and they are cheap. All these bullets have thin jackets and softer lead cores. |
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Post by ourway77 on Feb 6, 2016 14:32:23 GMT -5
It's not that I didn't want to spend the money $45 is no big deal.Being new and not knowing that both were one in the same. I didn't want to buy the Knight but you don't Find a brand new one FS in a sporting goods store for $770 shipped Plus one that is 1 in 20 twist Knight only makes a few, most of their 45's are 1-30 twist.Thanks for the information. I mainly bought it too shoot 10 MM bullets with sabots. I probably will never hunt with it. But I have nothing better to do but go to the range and shoot twice a week. Do you use a Wad of some sort? and what is the powder load you use. Lou
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 7, 2016 0:26:56 GMT -5
I use a veggie wads and 110gr to 120gr of BH209 by volume when i shoot sabotless. Knight did a 25 run of those rifles not long ago and just recently did another 25 run of the Mountaineer 1-20 45s. Mine is a DISC Original 45 1-20 with a real Lehigh breach plug. (Pre-Knight contract)
ATM im looking into a bushing plug for mine. The heavy sabotless loads are hard on vent liners. Shooting sabot loads with 200gr bullets, vents will last a long time. Your vent is brazed in. Mine are removable.
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Post by ourway77 on Feb 7, 2016 6:02:58 GMT -5
GMB54-120 When you find out about the breech plug let me know But my plug and yours are probably not the same. With the information you supplied at some time I may look into having a Luke plug made for mine. If I have a problem, if that is possible? Mine came from the first batch ser #00004 Lou
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 7, 2016 9:35:36 GMT -5
Mountaineer plugs and DISC/Extreme plugs are slightly different. One is a little longer than the other.
When your brazed in vent liner wears out, i know of someone that can remove it and set it up for removable vents. I hear its a little tricky to do but it can be done. Im still in the very early stages of getting a bushing plug. Ive got a very good idea of what i want to try but i don't even have a drawing made up yet. Just converting a factory plug will shorten the flash channel a bit too much so im not sure which way im gunna go yet.
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Post by ourway77 on Feb 8, 2016 6:40:16 GMT -5
I will wear it out but it should take some time? In the future is there some one who can make a new breech plug for the knight like the ones Luke sells I imagine any one of our gunsmiths on the sight could come up with one, If nothing else make one exactly like the original. Thanks for the information Lou
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Post by bestill on Feb 8, 2016 7:25:22 GMT -5
Rear sealing plug like lukes wont retrofit in a knight bolt gun.
As far as making a replacement bushing plug that is easily done..
Does someone have exact overall length of primer shelf to breech face.
On mountaineer plug and disc plug both being bare primer
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Post by sabotloader on Feb 8, 2016 17:56:06 GMT -5
Rear sealing plug like lukes wont retrofit in a knight bolt gun. As far as making a replacement bushing plug that is easily done.. Does someone have exact overall length of primer shelf to breech face. On mountaineer plug and disc plug both being bare primer I am sure you know - but the Mountaineer plug and the DISC plug are different lengths. |
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Post by bestill on Feb 8, 2016 19:13:31 GMT -5
Thick .040 difference
A mountaineer bare primer breech plug and bolt will fit disc rifle correct?
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Post by sabotloader on Feb 8, 2016 19:32:35 GMT -5
Thick .040 difference A mountaineer bare primer breech plug and bolt will fit disc rifle correct? No, the Mountaineer bolt will work in a DISC or Mountaineer but the breech plugs will not. The Mountaineer plug is built to be 0.060 longer than the DISC and again with a +/- tolerance. The real problem is the tolerances of the rifle... The new Mountaineer rifles are suppose to have a breech plug insertion in the barrel of +/- .003. I THINK the newer DISC's might use this same tolerance, but older ones not so much... I have found Older DISC's can be up to .025 deeper. Then add in the tolerance of the length of the bolt housing itself and the way the hammer assemble is mounted into the bolt housing all these play into the overall tolerance of each rifle. And I didn't mention the +/- tolerance of the breech plug itself and the depth of the primer pocket in the BP. Knight tries to match all this up when a rifle is assembled - but remember Knight has never said the rifle will be clean in the breech. Nor do they specify the primer that you need to use. When the new Lehigh/Knight BP was built it was designed to allow the fit of all American primers. But with the W209 as the base because it is or was the longest primer of the more well known American primers. Building a Universally clean BP for the Knight DISC and/or Mountaineer will be difficult. |
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Post by bestill on Feb 8, 2016 20:38:03 GMT -5
All good info thanks.
I made a post about sealing surface to sealing surface length of knight bolt gun owners. I was curious what those lengths are on plugs that seal.
Some reason i thought bare primer breech disc vs mountaineer was .040 difference but always learning.
So a mountaineer bare primer breech plug and mountaineer bare primer bolt wont fit in a disc barrel assy?
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Post by sabotloader on Feb 8, 2016 21:07:35 GMT -5
All good info thanks. I made a post about sealing surface to sealing surface length of knight bolt gun owners. I was curious what those lengths are on plugs that seal. Some reason i thought bare primer breech disc vs mountaineer was .040 difference but always learning. So a mountaineer bare primer breech plug and mountaineer bare primer bolt wont fit in a disc barrel assy? No they will not work together in a DISC unless you shorten the Breech Plug... I will get you a picture DISC Plug on the left and Mnt/ULite Plug on the right  |
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Post by bestill on Feb 8, 2016 21:22:45 GMT -5
I did know they were different length Some reason i thought mountaineer bare primer bolt was shorter to account for breech difference.
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Post by sabotloader on Feb 8, 2016 21:57:56 GMT -5
I did know they were different length Some reason i thought mountaineer bare primer bolt was shorter to account for breech difference. Nope the BP reciptical is drilled and tapped deeper for he longer BP. |
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Post by bestill on Feb 8, 2016 23:39:53 GMT -5
So disc rifle with disc bare primer breech will accept mountaineer bolt handle instead of disc handle with adapter?
Also my original post asked for disc bare primer breech seal to seal length that seals and mountaineer bare primer breech seal to seal length that seals.
Guess that is still a good question.
But greatly appreciate bolt info good stuff.thanks
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Post by pooldoc on Feb 9, 2016 1:54:56 GMT -5
According to Knight the current bare primer breech plug they are selling for conversion of Disc Extremes is made by Lehigh and was sized to use a Winchester standard 209 primer. I had to hand polish the primer pocket on the one I bought last week to allow the primer to seat deep enough to fully close bolt.
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Post by ourway77 on Feb 9, 2016 5:05:17 GMT -5
Really confused so Federal 209-A primers won't work in the rifle I bought? How does one polish the primer pocket I just bought a 1000 federal primers. HELP?  |
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Post by schunter on Feb 9, 2016 7:40:58 GMT -5
You can use the Fed. 209A primers. They may be just fine but if you are getting blow by you may have to shim or polish the primer pocket or switch to Winchester. As pooldoc mentioned the Knight/Lehigh breech plug was designed based on the dimensions of the Winchester primer. It is the longest of the 209's.
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Post by sabotloader on Feb 9, 2016 10:50:54 GMT -5
So disc rifle with disc bare primer breech will accept mountaineer bolt handle instead of disc handle with adapter? Yes - Knight no longer offers a primer adapter assenbly yes - valid questions.. 2 different lengths and both may vary somewhat |
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Post by ourway77 on Feb 11, 2016 6:43:16 GMT -5
Well got my Mountaineer yesterday I was some what dis-pointed in the quality I have a Knight Master Hunter 50 caliber and the quality is way better than the Mountaineer. I guess I expected it too be like my other Knight but all in all OK. I had a devil of a time try to figure out how to get the bolt to close after getting a nice blood blister I figured it out. I then fired three different primers 209-A CCI-M and winchester all showed signs of burning on the front half of the primer but none in the back of the primer by the firing pin and no leakage on the face of bolt it was clean. The real test is going to be shooting the rifle. Lou
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