nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16 
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Post by nismo on Nov 17, 2015 13:19:55 GMT -5
Hi guys, been reading a bunch on here, I'm fairly new to reloading, but been shooting black powder for 5 years now, and I got sick of the inconsistency of the cheaper guns, so I stepped it up a tad... Found a new MLii the box for $850cdn or about $12us, needless to say I am very excited! I'm going to start out with 40gn of 5744, with Winchester 209's, pushing Hornaday's HV sabots and a 250gn SST. Here is the newest Savage to my collection.  |
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Post by jims on Nov 17, 2015 13:46:30 GMT -5
Good hunting
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Post by Dave W on Nov 17, 2015 13:46:33 GMT -5
Good luck with the new deer stick.
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Post by rangeball on Nov 17, 2015 13:52:39 GMT -5
There used to be a thread filled with great info and tips on what to look for with the 10mlII to get you up and running accurately the quickest, but I can't find it.
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Post by mrbuck on Nov 17, 2015 16:41:17 GMT -5
Good price these days , at least Canadian dollar wise . Good luck and you have come to the right place . These guys know everything about shooting smokeless powder .
Chris
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Post by basicblues on Nov 17, 2015 23:09:12 GMT -5
Congrats! on the new Savage. I've got one brand new in the box that I'll probably never use.
I've had (2) Remington 700ML's since they first came out and I converted those to SML this year
so I've got my hands full with those right now.
Keep us posted as to what loads you wind up using.
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Post by subcalshooter on Nov 18, 2015 0:30:25 GMT -5
Nice find, good luck with it.
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Post by yule on Nov 18, 2015 8:09:19 GMT -5
NICE! If that load does not work, here is one that my Sav 50 likes ( 65 g H4198 , 310 ASG @.458, black smooth Harvester, Fed 209A) Bullets come from Luke, at Arrowhead. This bullet has a much higher BC, if you are trying to get more range out of your SML. Good luck.
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Post by jray57 on Nov 18, 2015 8:25:32 GMT -5
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 18, 2015 11:04:03 GMT -5
And this is why this forum is awesome, thanks for the info, keep it coming, need some nice weather, ml is in 2 weeks!
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Post by ateam on Nov 18, 2015 20:14:04 GMT -5
My sav.50 likes- CCImag 209, 67g 4198, Harvester BCR, Hornady 300grn JHP. Crappy BC, but shoots lights out to about 150.
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 18, 2015 22:55:37 GMT -5
Just finished making a cooling rod, mounted the scope, and measured the powder, powder is unreal right now, 92cdn for a lb of 5744 shipped mind you shipping was $35, but wow I'm likely going to get 4198 next, and stock up
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 20, 2015 18:20:06 GMT -5
Just out of curiousity, is there any particular way to break in the barrel?
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Post by rossman40 on Nov 20, 2015 19:52:13 GMT -5
The main thing is a good cleaning to start off with. Then maybe a serious session with JB bore paste, like 100 strokes.
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 20, 2015 20:50:28 GMT -5
I can't likely get the paste in time, but I did clean it with Hoppes.
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 24, 2015 11:03:06 GMT -5
I finally got out and shot it, started with 42gn of 5744, decent groupings, chrono said 1900fps went up to 55gn and netted 2300fps, groupings got better, I just need to find more time to get it perfect, the late season starts next Monday... I was shooting a 1"-2" group with both loads, but ran out of time to zero the scope
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Post by dans on Nov 24, 2015 12:40:57 GMT -5
If the group is at 100 yards get the scope zeroed and go kill your deer. 55 grains of 5744 sounds like a lot to me. I usually shoot 44 to 46 grains. A stock savage is supposed to shoot around 1.5 inches at 100 yards so you are right on. Just get it to shoot where the scope is looking.
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 24, 2015 12:42:55 GMT -5
I had a buddy with me that has one, and this is the load his buddy is trying, he might go up to 60gn yet. I'll stick with 55 for now, but I think I'm going with 4198 next I think much easier to locate
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Post by 1gifford on Nov 24, 2015 15:04:32 GMT -5
A lot of loads get thrown around. Be very careful....55 grains seems like about 10 more than I ever recall going with.
Kick much?
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 24, 2015 15:11:18 GMT -5
No didn't kick much more than the 42gn loads, it was more noticeable, but my Center fire is a Savage 111 in 300WM. My buddy brought his out with I think it was 52gn of IMR 4759, that kicked quite a bit more, closer to the 300. but still very manageable. We kept an eye on the speed, and primer for signs of over pressure. None were present.
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Post by smokeeter on Nov 24, 2015 16:02:48 GMT -5
50 grains + is in dangerous territory with 4759, better go with a slower powder. 4198 in mid 60 grains is more reasonable.
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 24, 2015 16:24:57 GMT -5
That is my buddies gun, he has been shooting it for years, I'm not saying it's safe by any means, but he has done a lot of research. I can't remember the exact load right now, but that number rings a bell. I am going to try and stay on the safe side of the line, and like I said before I'll likely stock up on 4198, or if I can find it n110.
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Post by 1gifford on Nov 25, 2015 9:11:19 GMT -5
There is a load section that lists all the loads tested. AA5744 shows 43-50 grains.......Don't know where you got the idea to jump to 55 grains but a few grains here or there and possibly the grabbing the wrong powder bottle can be a life changing experience!! Just saying Be careful  |
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 25, 2015 9:51:33 GMT -5
I understand your concern, it was a trial of two shots, I am sticking with 46gn until I can find the other powders I am looking for.
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Post by mrbuck on Nov 25, 2015 16:39:49 GMT -5
55.0 grains of 5744 is too much for for a 250 grain Hornady SST . And 52.0 grains of 4759 is too much also . When first working with a smokeless muzzleloader it is best to start your powder charges low and take your time working the charges up while getting to know your gun . No one likes high velocity more than I do .... but the smokeless learning process does not come in a couple of range sessions . A stock MLII is not ment to achieve blistering velocity ... it is just the first step in smokeless muzzleloading .
Chris
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Post by tasaman on Nov 26, 2015 12:51:16 GMT -5
Don't know about ya'll but this thread scares the crap out of me. A new guy jumping strait to hot loads with minimal experience is a recipe for disaster. I really hope he backs off and sticks with proven loads.
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 28, 2015 1:28:34 GMT -5
Like I said, my buddy has been shooting his mlii for 8 years, I also said I am going to use 44 gn of 5744, would I have tried this on my own no way. Tomorrow we will see what I can do with 44gn, which is a proven load. And recommended by Savage.
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Post by sw on Nov 28, 2015 10:09:10 GMT -5
5744. A very proven powder! Initially used with 300XTP, 42g. Very accurate, moderate pressure, VERY slow. 5744 generates more pressure for less velocity than any other used powder. 4759 and VV-110 are much more efficient. Also, 5744 is a known ventliner eroder. If you're interested in speed, 5744 is not your powder.
There are 2 ways to get flatter trajectories: 1) more speed and 2) higher BC'd bullet, 3) a combination of 2&3. Also, you want the gun to be consistent in impact point regardless of conditions (temp changes). A straight load of VV-110 of around 45gs with a 250-275g bullet with a wool wad under the sabot will get you in the 2400-2450'/sec range with almost no temp sensitivity. A duplex of 19/51 VV-110-H4198 will get you 150-200'/sec more with no more pressure and slightly more temp sensitivity. However, when looking at the trajectory charts of 2450 verses 2650 out to 300 yds , you'll find that maybe the straight load of VV-110 might be all that you want. I have a friend who got a ML-2 the year they came out. He shoots 250g Barnes TMZs with 45gs of VV-110, wool wad under the supplied sabot, and kills everything he shoots at out to 300 yds. Though he shoots TMZs(boat tail) most prefer TEZs(flat base).
In summary, 5744 has more pressure for less velocity than any other commonly used powder. If range is your goal, 5744 is not your powder. Fortunately, the ML-2 can take tremendous pressure so 55gs of 5744 will not kill you even though the pressure is well over the design pressure. Toby Bridges load that he says he was using when his ML-2 came apart was 300XTP/48g 5744.
You'll love your ML-2!
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nismo
Button Buck
Posts: 16
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Post by nismo on Nov 30, 2015 14:56:12 GMT -5
5744. A very proven powder! Initially used with 300XTP, 42g. Very accurate, moderate pressure, VERY slow. 5744 generates more pressure for less velocity than any other used powder. 4759 and VV-110 are much more efficient. Also, 5744 is a known ventliner eroder. If you're interested in speed, 5744 is not your powder. There are 2 ways to get flatter trajectories: 1) more speed and 2) higher BC'd bullet, 3) a combination of 2&3. Also, you want the gun to be consistent in impact point regardless of conditions (temp changes). A straight load of VV-110 of around 45gs with a 250-275g bullet with a wool wad under the sabot will get you in the 2400-2450'/sec range with almost no temp sensitivity. A duplex of 19/51 VV-110-H4198 will get you 150-200'/sec more with no more pressure and slightly more temp sensitivity. However, when looking at the trajectory charts of 2450 verses 2650 out to 300 yds , you'll find that maybe the straight load of VV-110 might be all that you want. I have a friend who got a ML-2 the year they came out. He shoots 250g Barnes TMZs with 45gs of VV-110, wool wad under the supplied sabot, and kills everything he shoots at out to 300 yds. Though he shoots TMZs(boat tail) most prefer TEZs(flat base). In summary, 5744 has more pressure for less velocity than any other commonly used powder. If range is your goal, 5744 is not your powder. Fortunately, the ML-2 can take tremendous pressure so 55gs of 5744 will not kill you even though the pressure is well over the design pressure. Toby Bridges load that he says he was using when his ML-2 came apart was 300XTP/48g 5744. You'll love your ML-2! Thanks for the info, I ran out of time at the range and ml season is here, but 46gn netted me a 1.5" group at 100 I'm happy with that, but will fin tune before next year. Looking forward to getting out tomorrow! |
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Post by 10ga on Nov 30, 2015 15:54:41 GMT -5
Accurizing my MLII. Well have 2 MLII and it has been an education accurizing them w/o having a pile of $ put in. Retired so time I have.
1st thing is smooth the bore. I have used many methods but polishing with JB of preference is easy and if in Canada you can do it while watching the Grey Cup or in front the fire.
2nd is a bedding job, add pillars if you want but I haven't found that helps much if you do a proper bedding job to begin.
3rd is getting the trigger where you want.
4th is load development. Most 50s shoot best with .458 bullets and BCR or orange 458X50 sabots. My Moly barrel likes the orange sabots and 300 grain .458 bullets. The SS barreled gun likes .458 bullets and BCR sabots. Moly barrel is a "dirty girl" and does not begin to group until I have at least 5 to 6 rounds down the tube. Needless to say no cleaning until hunting season over for her. The SS barrel is more particular and gets a Hoppes patch and 2 dry patches every 3rd shot. I shoot modest loads and have been using 4759 but will have to switch to other powder soon. 4198 looks like easy availability so that is what I'll try in the 50s.
5th item and most expensive item is glass, rings and bases. DO NOT SKIMP on glass and rings/bases. SML is hard on scopes and mounts and most with experience will have torn up pieces/parts of these items. I have "broken" 2 scopes on my 50 cals and have finally gotten good glass on each. One currently wears an ancient steel tube weaver in 4X power and the other has an older model Banner, yes Banner, in 3X9X40. The scopes are TOUGH and good for the shorter range hunting I do, no scope failures in the last 4 years.
I have been able to get every MLII that I've crossed paths with to give acceptable hunting accuracy, but this is the east and rarely do hunting ranges go over 250 and 90% under 75 yds.
Those 5 items should give you an easy improvement in accuracy to better than moa if you are already getting 1.5 moa.
These are my experiences and yours may be different. Keep us updated on any progress or lack of same.
Be safe, mark that loading rod and good shooting. 10 ga
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