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Post by mcgowen45 on Nov 11, 2015 12:58:12 GMT -5
Well here is the final chapter on the sub calibers not shooting as good as the 45 cal's, and yes it has been thrown in my face quite a few times. Like i promise a couple of guys on this board, I took the CMC 40 cal. .400/.408 out today for the 600 yrds test. I knew right of the bat that I would have to have some one verify the range and shooting, and the guys there were more than happy to do it. I even had one of the guys spot for me thru my spotting scope while i was shooting, he even signed the target, and I took a pic of him holding the target up. The bullets used were the SST's 200 gr, and the Barnes 195 gr. load. The scope is a Leupold VX-R 4x12x40 fire Dot CDS system, and the turret only goes to 500 yrds. The first two shot so I could get my bearings were high to the left, once he spot it for me I made the necessary adjustments, and started shooting. The first shots were the SST's which I know I shot at least three, and then the Barnes, which I shot at least four. Did not measured the group, did not subtract ant thing from the group for the size of the bullets, it is what it is. The set was plain ans simple as you will see from the pic. Just a plain shooting bag up from, and a rear bag. So here is the final out come, the sub's are just as accurate as the 45 cal's at what ever range you want to shoot them and i would out on a limb and say they are more accurate. My two cents worth.    |
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Post by miketodd58 on Nov 11, 2015 13:55:50 GMT -5
That's impressive Carlos. Great shooting.
The VXR scopes are amazing. Ive got that same scope and DNZ Mount but in 3x9x40. Love the Firedot! You should put to rest the whole aluminium VS steel debate on Scope bases with that report.
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Post by rambler on Nov 11, 2015 14:15:32 GMT -5
Great shooting Carlos. I'll say this again, your word is good enough for me when it comes to posting your range results. I mean I trust you with my credit card info over the phone when ordering bullets, if I can trust you with that, I can trust what you do and say are facts.
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Post by edge on Nov 11, 2015 14:27:54 GMT -5
My condolences on the Tomato Stake...but you were warned  Very impressive to say the least. edge. |
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Post by thunder53 on Nov 11, 2015 14:39:29 GMT -5
Awesome shooting Carlos!
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Post by jims on Nov 11, 2015 14:42:27 GMT -5
Nice report.
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Post by Richard on Nov 11, 2015 15:17:38 GMT -5
The proof is in the pudding! Nice shooting Carlos.
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Post by rob67 on Nov 11, 2015 15:26:37 GMT -5
That's some very impressive shooting, using a no shooting sub caliber ml with cheap low bc bullets! James was very impressed with your shooting after I showed him how far 600 yards is. He said he couldn't beat you on that so he said he's just gonna have to one up you on deer. Haha.
Great shooting as always. You the man.
HAPPY VETERANS DAY. Thank you and all veterans for your service.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 15:32:20 GMT -5
That is crazy awesome shooting! Is that poly? I don't remember who ended up with that gun! Great GREAT shooting!
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Post by rangeball on Nov 11, 2015 16:58:29 GMT -5
OutStanding.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 17:42:45 GMT -5
Good shooting Carlos but I highly doubt this is the last chapter. I hope to stretch my 40's legs whenever I get to shoot.
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Post by TGinPA on Nov 11, 2015 17:56:06 GMT -5
Probably not the final chapter. But another step forward and a definitive answer as to the question of grouping precision potential for the 40 cals and below. This is what this board is about. Thanks Carlos.
TG
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Post by airborneike on Nov 11, 2015 18:08:20 GMT -5
Outstanding!!!!
I like that Houge stock too
ML action?
Mike
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Post by kash913 on Nov 11, 2015 18:18:52 GMT -5
Great shooting next on the list 40 cal
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Post by tnhunter54 on Nov 11, 2015 18:22:45 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info you provide for the sub calabers and yes I'm thinking about getting one myself.
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Post by rangeball on Nov 11, 2015 18:47:06 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info you provide for the sub calabers and yes I'm thinking about getting one myself. If they were legal here I'd have one. |
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Post by rangeball on Nov 11, 2015 18:47:59 GMT -5
That is crazy awesome shooting! Is that poly? I don't remember who ended up with that gun! Great GREAT shooting! That was Guy's, wasn't it? |
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Post by al53 on Nov 11, 2015 18:58:00 GMT -5
Great shooting Carlos..as always..you made your point loud and clear..the subs are here to stay ...you are the trigger man..also cMC knows how to build a shooting rifle ...Impressive
Al
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Post by mrbuck on Nov 11, 2015 19:14:15 GMT -5
Question ... Was the same powder charge used for the Hornady SSTs and the Barnes 195s ? Should the different B.C.s of these bullets produced different drops , points of impact at 600 yards ? The Barnes B.C. is listed at .195 and the Hornady at.265 .My own testing has been limited to only 200 yards with my SMLs .That two bullet group at 600 yards , to me , is just fabulous !! And with only a 12X scope !
Chris
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Post by mcgowen45 on Nov 11, 2015 19:14:43 GMT -5
Outstanding!!!! I like that Houge stock too ML action? Mike Yes it is a ML action. |
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Post by mcgowen45 on Nov 11, 2015 19:20:25 GMT -5
Question ... Was the same powder charge used for the Hornady SSTs and the Barnes 195s ? Should the different B.C.s of these bullets produced different drops , points of impact at 600 yards ? The Barnes B.C. is listed at .195 and the Hornady at.265 .My own testing has been limited to only 200 yards with my SMLs .That two bullet group at 600 yards , to me , is just fabulous !! And with only a 12X scope ! Chris Yes the same charge was use with both bullet, and it was not easy with a 12X scope, but it can be done. I took into consideration the weight of both bullets, did really worried about the BC, and knowing how they shot at 100 yrds we made the necessary adjustments so they would impact in the red circle. |
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Post by mrbuck on Nov 11, 2015 19:36:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the info . Super shooting with what is really a hunting type setup !!!
Chris
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 20:05:29 GMT -5
That one is not Guy's poly. It is a pacnor 1:16 .408 with savage breech plug. It was going to be ratsnakeboogey's but he decided to try one of Luke's plugs when they came out and Carlos was there to jump on the scraps!
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Post by elkman1310 on Nov 11, 2015 20:43:20 GMT -5
Those are very nice results at that distance. Its not that a 40cal gun is not accurate! we know they are. But when you enter into the long range game of trying to harvest deer size game at 500 plus yards. The 40cal and the 200gr SST do not have enough energy to humanly take deer at 600 yards. If you look at a ballistics chart you will see that even if you start the 200gr SST off at 3,000fps it is down to 700ft lbs of energy at 600 yards and the Barnes is way below that because of the lower B.C.
Thats why the 45Cal is better. And only because of the Parker and Arrowhead bullets that are available. When It comes right down to it the .416 would be the best choice for long range work providing its legal to use in the states you plan on hunting.
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Post by subcalshooter on Nov 11, 2015 20:43:56 GMT -5
Carlos, you are the man. The trigger man, fantastic shooting! Thanks for the testing you do at long ranges where some of us can't. Them 40's are just bad azz! Mine are dialed in with CEB's for hunting, but while testing, I found a couple great loads out of poly with the 200 sst, that gun is a 1 holer every time out.
I don't think I could shoot that good at 600 with a 20x scope... well done and thanks for sharing.
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Post by sw on Nov 11, 2015 21:40:46 GMT -5
Concerning energy for an ethical kill. My understanding is that the minimum of 1000ft-#s is based on a jacketed 30 cal bullet. A round ball muzzleloading bullet from a 50 cal(0.490 - 0.495" -177gs) is considered adequate at 500 ft-#s. As cal goes up and as the bullet is designed to be more expansive (250 and 300 std XTPs, 200-300SSTs) the energy req'd goes down. I expect that a 200SST with 700ft-#s remaining would do quite well. 45ACPs are quite deadly but very low on energy. Just my thoughts.
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gregk
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Post by gregk on Nov 11, 2015 22:08:09 GMT -5
Buddy.....that's some great shooting! When I got your email earlier I was just shaking my head. NOBODY can shoot as good as you!! I can't tell you how glad I am that I bought that McRem 40 from you. The sub calibers are great shooters & bad medicine for deer at all distances. We owe you a lot for making us all aware.
Greg
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Post by Dave W on Nov 11, 2015 22:22:36 GMT -5
Looks like those six would have hit center mass from a loooooooong way off.
Crazy, accurate for that set up with those bullets. Way to go Carlos!
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Post by bestill on Nov 11, 2015 22:34:38 GMT -5
Question ... Was the same powder charge used for the Hornady SSTs and the Barnes 195s ? Should the different B.C.s of these bullets produced different drops , points of impact at 600 yards ? The Barnes B.C. is listed at .195 and the Hornady at.265 .My own testing has been limited to only 200 yards with my SMLs .That two bullet group at 600 yards , to me , is just fabulous !! And with only a 12X scope ! Chris Yes the same charge was use with both bullet, and it was not easy with a 12X scope, but it can be done. I took into consideration the weight of both bullets, did really worried about the BC, and knowing how they shot at 100 yrds we made the necessary adjustments so they would impact in the red circle. So with the 2 different bullets used how much elevation difference was there between the Barnes195 and hornady 200 |
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Post by edge on Nov 12, 2015 6:06:01 GMT -5
SNIP. Thats why the 45Cal is better. And only because of the Parker and Arrowhead bullets that are available. When It comes right down to it the .416 would be the best choice for long range work providing its legal to use in the states you plan on hunting. "Better" is subjective and personal like most things in life Once again great shooting. edge. |
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