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Post by Richard on Aug 31, 2015 20:35:58 GMT -5
Elkman asked me to post the following: Hi Richard! Got the big boy out tonight! Went up to the 1000 yard range to shoot my 6.5/284 and my 45 cal Muzzleloader. I should have stuck with the muzzleloader. I shot at the target at 600 yards holding Kentucky windage because I thought I wouldn't have enough clicks to get the Hornady's on at 600 yards . It turns out I would have had enough. But the results were still great. The gun is built on a Rem ML 700. My bolt nose and XP100 firing pin a Savage style plug with a .023 bushing. Gun was loaded with 300GR SST bullets sized to .4503 (not full formed) 71.5grs of IMR 4198 a wool wad and CCI Mag 209 primers. This shoots little groups at 100 if I would have had a true aiming point I believe the gun will shoot smaller yet at 600 yards. I was very surprised the SST bullets shot that well at long distance. This gun was built to shoot off a heavy tripod it weighs 16lbs. its also a joy to shot.  image hosting 12mb pic host |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 20:40:20 GMT -5
Who's your daddy?!
Awesome!
I love the stock man! That's what will take these guns that last extra step when it comes to long range accuracy....heck that's all there really is left to change...
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Post by rambler on Aug 31, 2015 20:41:14 GMT -5
What a howitzer!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 20:45:07 GMT -5
Imagine what a MH or APB will shoot like out of that gun at 600 yards!
Your shooting a bullet (SST) with the BC of a Tootsie Roll!
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Post by rambler on Aug 31, 2015 20:47:44 GMT -5
Your shooting a bullet (SST) with the BC of a Tootsie Roll! Tootsie Roll price too  |
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Post by deadeer on Aug 31, 2015 23:25:46 GMT -5
Man that is awesome!!! Those tootsie rolls do shoot, I am doing about that good at 300, which is way more than good enough for my hunting. Good thing cause I now have over 600 of them.
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Post by edge on Sept 1, 2015 4:20:59 GMT -5
That is some unbelievable shooting there, I'm sure I'd be thrilled at half of that distance!
edge.
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Post by Dave W on Sept 1, 2015 6:18:28 GMT -5
That was going to be my bullet of choice when I ran out of Parkers if I stayed with the .45, shot really well out of my Shilen.
Awesome shooting!
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Post by schunter on Sept 1, 2015 6:57:43 GMT -5
Beautiful rifle and incredible group at 600!
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Post by elkman1310 on Sept 1, 2015 7:32:29 GMT -5
I took some pictures of our 1000 yard range but they didn't come out so Richard didn't post them. This gun has a Douglas 1-22 twist barrel. It was a 1.250 barrel blank. So when I turned it down I left it heavy for this purpose of building this heavy of a rifle.
The breech plug is a stock Savage plug with a Tungsten bushing I got from Luke. I installed the bushing and also head spaced the plug to the bolt nose I make. I firmly believe 209 primers are the way to go. The most important thing is to head space the plug correctly. whether you use the Hunter bolt nose kit or my conversion head spacing the primer is the key to success.
The barrel is also chrome moly that's all that was available at the time. They are just as accurate. You just need to clean the outside off once in awhile so they don't get surface rust. Or you can always have it coated.
The stock was a second from Keystone industries. I machined a bedding block in the stock and the barrel is free floating. The barrel is 28" plus the brake which is made out of aluminum.
I have held off buying anymore match hunters only because I was having great luck with the 300gr SST bullets in all the Shilen barrels. Shilen's and SST bullet are a marriage made in heaven. They will shoot in the Shilen barrel without a wad. The Douglas barrel will keyhole every time without that dam thick wool wad.
If you look at the B.C of the 300gr SST its a dog. But B.C. is not everything. The 300gr SST has a good form factor which is important. for flight stability. I also had great conditions to shoot in last evening which always helps. For the money the Hornady bullet is hard to beat. I would also say that I think 600 yards is its max. range. Also Hornady states the B.C.at .250 Their are dead on with that B.C. The 270 E-Max or 300 or 325 MH Parkers would be the way to go. I want to shoot this gun at 1000 yards but it will require changing scopes and bases and tuning the 300gr Parkers.
That will probably be in the fall. Maybe I will bring this gun to the next Kentucky shoot.
Thanks to Richard for posting the pictures.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 8:12:50 GMT -5
Is there a limit to what these guns can do..? Awesome shooting and report "two thumbs up"
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Post by elkman1310 on Sept 1, 2015 8:50:22 GMT -5
There probably is a limit for the 45cal. Only because of bullets. That's where the 416 can take it to the next level beyond 600 yards.
Swing-Lock is really big on the .416 I might build one just to play around with it. Some of the shooters on here are getting good results with their .416's. I don't like the idea of annealing bullets or full forming bullets . The bore rides are shooting very well for me in all the muzzleloaders I build.
All the muzzleloaders I build use a brake. My brakes use a little different internal design that is really working. It helps control muzzle blast. They really cut the recoil down. Like all brakes there loud. But it is a good trade off.
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Post by 65shooter on Sept 1, 2015 10:42:53 GMT -5
That is some awesome shooting Carl!
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Post by jims on Sept 1, 2015 10:47:25 GMT -5
Fine shooting.
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Post by Richard on Sept 2, 2015 13:53:24 GMT -5
A week or two ago I made a comment and got jumped on! It centered around "what the fuss was with the .40/416 caliber ML'ers? And, what Carl has just proven, is that the .45's will shoot right alongside the sub calibers; Now maybe as he said, out past 600 yards there might be some advantages? The thing is, how many are actually shooting that far or have a place to shoot that far? Or is there even any competition available for those distances? All I know is that I have and have seen others shoot groups as small as what is being shot with the sub calibers.
On Tuesday I had 6 (in a row) with the same 300 SST smooth sized as Carl was shooting, 10/60 Clays/4198 duplex at 300 yards, in 1.8" and all nine shots in 3.0". (no barrel cool down) At 100 with the same bullet and load a decent .471". So, its groups like that, that lead to the remark about the sub calibers.
When a lot of people stared jumping ship with the .50's, and going to the .45's, there was a definite need for improvement, myself included. But we have gotten the .45's shooting so well, these sub calibers are more play toys for those with deeper pockets who can afford to experiment. As far as normal hunter/deer slayers, the .45 is one heck of a ML'er. This is not to knock the sub calibers as they obviously do shoot but just clarifying the fact that normal shooters/hunters do not have to have a sub caliber to get their deer. Just my humble opinion.
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Post by rambler on Sept 2, 2015 14:00:25 GMT -5
A week or two ago I made a comment and got jumped on! It centered around "what the fuss was with the .40/416 caliber ML'ers? And, what Carl has just proven, is that the .45's will shoot right alongside the sub calibers; Now maybe as he said, out past 600 yards there might be some advantages? The thing is, how many are actually shooting that far or have a place to shoot that far? Or is there even any competition available for those distances? All I know is that I have and have seen others shoot groups as small as what is being shot with the sub calibers. On Tuesday I had 6 (in a row) with the same 300 SST smooth sized as Carl was shooting, 10/60 Clays/4198 duplex at 300 yards, in 1.8" and all nine shots in 3.0". (no barrel cool down) At 100 with the same bullet and load a decent .471". So, its groups like that, that lead to the remark about the sub calibers. When a lot of people stared jumping ship with the .50's, and going to the .45's, there was a definite need for improvement, myself included. But we have gotten the .45's shooting so well, these sub calibers are more play toys for those with deeper pockets who can afford to experiment. As far as normal hunter/deer slayers, the .45 is one heck of a ML'er. This is not to knock the sub calibers as they obviously do shoot but just clarifying the fact that normal shooters/hunters do not have to have a sub caliber to get their deer. Just my humble opinion. I was giving some thought to the 40 caliber until I found out Iowa has a 44 caliber minimum. I may be hunting in Iowa. But that is kind of misleading because I know lots of people in Iowa who shot saboted bullets out of 45 caliber mz's and they are shooting 357 bullets. Go figure. |
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Post by 1gifford on Sept 3, 2015 8:52:30 GMT -5
Read this reg and please interrupt for me. I have asked a lot of guys and they all start questioning the reg after reading the part that says "There are no restrictions on in-line or disk-type muzzleloaders"  “Flintlock or percussion cap muzzleloading rifles or muskets between .44 and .775 caliber shooting single projectiles; muzzleloading pistols .44 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches and no shoulder stock or long barrel modifications. Muzzleloaders equipped with electronic ignition are not allowed. There are no restrictions on in-line or disk-type muzzleloaders. Riflescopes may also be used.” I have asked the DNR and they couldn't give a definitive answer either. |
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Post by Richard on Sept 3, 2015 9:00:33 GMT -5
Sounds kind of straight forward to me? "NO Restrictions!"
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Post by rambler on Sept 3, 2015 9:05:36 GMT -5
Read this reg and please interrupt for me. I have asked a lot of guys and they all start questioning the reg after reading the part that says "There are no restrictions on in-line or disk-type muzzleloaders" “Flintlock or percussion cap muzzleloading rifles or muskets between .44 and .775 caliber shooting single projectiles; muzzleloading pistols .44 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches and no shoulder stock or long barrel modifications. Muzzleloaders equipped with electronic ignition are not allowed. There are no restrictions on in-line or disk-type muzzleloaders. Riflescopes may also be used.” I have asked the DNR and they couldn't give a definitive answer either. Which state are you in?? That sounds like Iowa?? |
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Post by edge on Sept 3, 2015 9:10:58 GMT -5
Read this reg and please interrupt for me. SNIP. If your regulations are available in a PDF then I would do a complete search for muzzleloaders. You only gave us a snippet and we really can't see what heading this section is under, for all we know it is under small game ( just kidding, but you get the idea ) edge. edit: Since it was suggested that it was Iowa I downloaded the regs and searched the entire PDF and would agree with Richard. One caveat would be other State regulations pertaining to bullets, FMJ's or other none hunting specific rules. |
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Post by rambler on Sept 3, 2015 9:33:24 GMT -5
I believe this is from Iowa's rules and regs which is about a cluster to read:
Muzzleloaders: Flintlock or percussion cap
muzzleloading rifles or muskets between .44
and .775 caliber shooting single projectiles;
muzzleloading pistols .44 caliber or larger with a
minimum barrel length of 4 inches and no shoulder
stock or long barrel modifications. Muzzleloaders
equipped with electronic ignition are
not allowed. There are no restrictions on in-line
or disk-type muzzleloaders. Riflescopes may
also be used.
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Post by 1gifford on Sept 3, 2015 9:41:16 GMT -5
Yep. Iowa.....under Deer Hunting.
I thought our Savages were In-Line.............I read No restriction.
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Post by rambler on Sept 3, 2015 10:13:10 GMT -5
Yep. Iowa.....under Deer Hunting. I thought our Savages were In-Line.............I read No restriction. They are by every definition. Go for it I say. I have a friend up there that has been using a 45 cal for years with a sabot and .357 bullet |
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Post by 1gifford on Sept 3, 2015 11:22:14 GMT -5
You guys confirmation makes me feel better about my interpretation of the regs.
I know I have read on here by numerous Iowa shooters that you must shoot 44 or larger and my thoughts were always....Oh No you don't!
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Post by rambler on Sept 3, 2015 11:54:34 GMT -5
You guys confirmation makes me feel better about my interpretation of the regs. I know I have read on here by numerous Iowa shooters that you must shoot 44 or larger and my thoughts were always....Oh No you don't! What are you shooting with? |
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Post by 1gifford on Sept 3, 2015 12:22:02 GMT -5
45 on my Apex and Savage/Brux.....but My Rem 700 will be a 40 IF I ever get the $$$ together.
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