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Post by Richard on Jun 2, 2015 18:57:07 GMT -5
Thought we were going to get rained on today but the weather held through out the morning and we had a perfect day with no wind………..High humidity in the 70 to 80* range. The cool rod was used intermittently just to keep barrel temp’s low. The barrel had been well cleaned. The scope removed and the rings re-lapped just to check since they were never taken off the scope when transferred from the old Rem/Pac to the new .45 Rem/Brux. Every looked good. The first shot in group #1 reflects a slight change in POI plus it was a fouling round. A subsequent adjustment was made before firing shot #2. Several other adjustments were made during the shooting session. Group #1…….230 gr. Hornady HAP FFed’ with 5/65 of Clays/H-4198 and .060” veggie wad. Shot #1 was a fouler/re-mounted scope shot. Not included in the group and the velocity deleted. Just an ok nothing to write home about group. On group #2 I switched to the 300 gr. SST full formed with veggie wad and the same 5/65 load. Velocity averaged at 2736 with a decent 19 fps ES. Again, not a good group, just OK at 1.3”. Scoped clicked to the right. On the third group is used the same FF 300 gr. SST but switched to the 10/60 Clays/H-4198 duplex and now the bug hole formed…………… .415” for three shots. Velocity not that much different from 5/65 and, ES decreased to 11 fps. Scope again adjusted up closer to the DOT. Group #4 used the same 300 gr. SST but this time only smooth sized. (same 10/60 duplex). After three shots there was a bug hole and Bill said………”go ahead and fire five!”………So I did. Yes it got a little bigger, but ¾” for five shots “ain’t too shabby” for a smooth sized generic bullet! ES still decent at 24 fps. With that, I moved the same combination out to 200 yards for group #5. Shot #1 a bit low but 2, 3 4 measured 1.2” with #4 making it 1.6”…….Including #5 it wound up at 2.3” Switching to the 290 TEZ and the same 10/60 load at 200 it produced a five shot 1.8” group. All in all, a good day and the “burning question”-----------To FF size or Not to size??? So far, I am not seeing anything that is leading me to believe full forming is better than smooth sizing? If you look at the above velocities and ES’s, both smooth and FF loads are pretty close to the same?................Which leads me to believe that both are sealing the bore equally??? Richard  upload gifs windows screen capture |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 20:04:11 GMT -5
I think it just comes down to the fact of which bullet one wants to shoot, .451 or .458 or if one wants to use a wad or not?
Would you agree that the Brux is a better tube than the Pac?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 20:58:20 GMT -5
It's always fun reading your post and good info. I've always felt full form is more work than necessary. Even though your knurling up the 300 SST and full forming I'm not sure it's true full form. However with that said even if you are using a true .458 bullet I'm not sure you'll get better accuracy than what your getting now. The only advantage using .458 bullets is the potential to get higher BC bullets. Again you can get pretty high BC bullets with Parker bullets that can be smooth formed.
What I see with your post is this, get the bullets to obdurate quickly and it doesn't matter if you full form or smooth form your going to produce great accuracy.
Great post Richard!
: Edit : one thing I just noticed is with full form your getting very good es which might make a difference at long range 300+
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Post by lwh723 on Jun 2, 2015 21:11:07 GMT -5
I'd like to see some comparison to straight loads of H4198 for accuracy. With the loose breech area, I can see where you needed the Clays. But if your sizing is right, you should be fine with the single in a Brux. Also agree with RR comment that knurling up is not true FF sizing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 21:55:13 GMT -5
Good report and great shooting.... The clays / 4198 combo is a winner... I've found that clays / H322 shoots just as good...As Luke mentioned about straight loads of H4198 being just as accurate..I tend to agree..As long as heavier bullets are used (290-300+gns) they shoot just as good as duplex's... I can't say the same when shooting 250gn bullets..Can't seem to get them to shoot as well with straight powders...They need a swift kick to get them to obturate because of their weight....thanks again...I'm hitting the range tomorrow am weather permitting.
Zen
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Post by Richard on Jun 2, 2015 21:55:12 GMT -5
Bill...............................That is not really a fair question! Is this Brux barrel better than my loose PN?  ?? Well definitely it is! But do I think every PN was as loose as mine?...........Probably not? I had a Shilen from Cole, admittedly, I did not have that many rounds thru it before getting a buyer, but, fitting bullets down it felt similar to the Brux. I think if I had shot as many bullets thru it as I have with the new Brux, it possibly could have shot as well? No doubt, this Brux is digesting a lot of stuff better than the old PN and I am very pleased. Luke.....yes, I will shot some straight charges of H-4198 thru it. Which load would you personally suggest I try with those 310 APB's? Right now I am kind of like "a kid in a candy store"...........I don't know which bullet/powder combo to try next. Chad.......yes, maybe? Some of those smaller ES's were only three shot groups? The first group was five shots full formed and its ES's were no better than some of the five shot smooth sized groups? That is one reason why I prefer five shot groups to three! It provides more information on the load...........speed, ES and grouping. Again, thanks for giving me the opportunity to play with a good barrel! I hope the information I put on the forum gives members some loads to think about. Richard |
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Post by schunter on Jun 3, 2015 6:42:31 GMT -5
Very good report Richard. Those 290 TEZ's continue to shoot very well. How about a straight 70 grain charge of H4198 with those?
Scott
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 7:09:47 GMT -5
That's some fine shooting!
Thanks for the post!
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Post by rambler on Jun 3, 2015 7:49:08 GMT -5
Thanks Richard. As always good reading and info!!
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Post by 1gifford on Jun 3, 2015 10:15:41 GMT -5
Richard
Curious what power you set your scope at when shooting 100 yards,200 yards and 300yards? All the same or do you use more power as you get further away? Great shooting as always!
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Post by cowhunter on Jun 3, 2015 11:58:31 GMT -5
Great report as usual. I've shot many groups of the 310 APB and some 290 TEZ using 70 grain H4198 and I would like to see how your Brux shoots those loads. Thanks
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Post by Richard on Jun 3, 2015 16:42:54 GMT -5
1gifford.............My scope is a fixed power 16X Leupold MK IV with the mil dot reticule. That is the reason I used larger bullseye's at 2 & 300 yards. Those dots I use at 100 would be completely covered at 300. 70 gr/ pf H-4198 sounds like a doable load for me. I don't know if I am too keen on Hanks 78 gr. load? ? Yes, I know it has proven safe for him and others I just feel more comfortable at lesser velocities. Schuter..............I don't know about single powder loads with the TEZ. I believe it needs a good kick in the arse to get it into the rifling. The solid coppers will not obturate as readily as the cup and core bullets. Of course, I could try knurling them up and then running them thru the FF die as I have done with other .451/2 bullets. The thing is, when your are able to get one holers with smooth sizing and duplex loads....................How much better can it get? I want to say it was a fluke but a week later I was able to put five of those TEZ's in something just over 1/2" with the same load. Don't forget, besides the fact the Clays is instrumental in getting the bullet to obturate, it is also a pretty good guarantee that your main charge will ignite under very cold conditions. Richard |
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Post by cuda on Jun 4, 2015 7:05:45 GMT -5
My son shoots 69gr of IMR4198 with a lubed wad and a .451 290gr TEZ no sizing. We sized some XTP .452 down to .451 and they did not shoot as well as the 290TEZ with the same load and wad. The 290TEZ is soft so it expands easier to the bore than hard coated bullets. We hunt in IOWA and we only use a straight IMR4198 and it fires. We do not clean the barrels they shoot better dirty I use the same load in my 10ML-ll with a 300gr .458 Hornady and BCR.
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Post by schunter on Jun 4, 2015 7:55:20 GMT -5
1gifford.............My scope is a fixed power 16X Leupold MK IV with the mil dot reticule. That is the reason I used larger bullseye's at 2 & 300 yards. Those dots I use at 100 would be completely covered at 300. 70 gr/ pf H-4198 sounds like a doable load for me. I don't know if I am too keen on Hanks 78 gr. load? ? Yes, I know it has proven safe for him and others I just feel more comfortable at lesser velocities. Schuter..............I don't know about single powder loads with the TEZ. I believe it needs a good kick in the arse to get it into the rifling. The solid coppers will not obturate as readily as the cup and core bullets. Of course, I could try knurling them up and then running them thru the FF die as I have done with other .451/2 bullets. The thing is, when your are able to get one holers with smooth sizing and duplex loads....................How much better can it get? I want to say it was a fluke but a week later I was able to put five of those TEZ's in something just over 1/2" with the same load. Don't forget, besides the fact the Clays is instrumental in getting the bullet to obturate, it is also a pretty good guarantee that your main charge will ignite under very cold conditions. Richard I agree 100% Richard as I duplex as well. Just thought it would be a great comparison with the 290 TEZ smooth sized with a straight charge of H4198. Scott |
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Post by Richard on Jun 4, 2015 15:00:20 GMT -5
I will be loading 70 gr. of H-4198 for next weeks testing. Side by side.
Richard
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