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Post by sw on Jun 6, 2009 13:09:38 GMT -5
:)Today I weighed 6 Red Hot arrows that came out of the same package and 3 that I bought at a store out of a bin. The 6 weighed:312.3, 312.3, 312.3, 312.9, 313.3, 313.6. That is very close. The other 3: 311.4, 310.1, 309.6. Still good but not as good. I weighed 6 "identical" 125g bullet points: 125.1,125.3, 125.0, 124.4,124.6,123.7. I shot the Strykeforce appx 200X today. All were 50 - 110 yds. I sighted in my Sitetron 2 3X12 MD scope set on only 4X. Also, I measured the drops from where 50 yds would hit to what the drops were from the 50 yd sight setting to 100 yds. So sighted in at 50 yds and shooting at 60 yds the drop was 8", 70 yds - 16", 80 yds -29", 90 yds - 42", 100 yds - 66". The arrows averaged 437.7gs and averaged 383'/sec +/-0. Regardless of just how accurate a x-bow is at 100 yds, the trajectory compromises long range hunting just as it does with a bow. I can do fairly well with a vertical bow out to 100yds when shooting at a known range/target and many of you can or could also with practice for those of you who haven't. I had an Oregon Valient Crusader that would relatively easily hit the vital area of a deer tgt every shot at 80 yds. I don't know if the x-bow has any real significant advantage or not as far as range goes, if the range is known. Matched arrows help. Mine are within 1 grain. Next I will be testing the QTs with brass inserts and Al nocks with 4" Blazer vanes at slight offset. They will weigh appx 510g and will likely be slightly more accurate. So much for now.
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Post by kevin k on Jun 6, 2009 17:11:11 GMT -5
sounds like your getting it right down SW you'll have that mastered in no time kinda like when i was a kid growing up on the farm i always had my gun or bow i didnt have to think just point and shoot any yardage cant wait to see more of your shooting as you progress onward have fun and shoot well. kevin
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Post by edge on Jun 6, 2009 20:20:57 GMT -5
Someone is having a lot of fun edge.
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Post by sw on Jun 6, 2009 22:55:23 GMT -5
24"s of drop in 10 yds(90-100yds) is 2.4"/yd. See just one of the problems with planning to long range x-bow hunt! 1 yd off and 2" off shooting and you are 4 1/2" from aimpoint if the animal stays still. This is if you measured only 1 yd off. Not very ethical to hunt at this range. I would(will!!!) try it on coyotes though.
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Post by dougedwards on Jun 8, 2009 21:49:47 GMT -5
24"s of drop in 10 yds(90-100yds) is 2.4"/yd. See just one of the problems with planning to long range x-bow hunt! 1 yd off and 2" off shooting and you are 4 1/2" from aimpoint if the animal stays still. This is if you measured only 1 yd off. Not very ethical to hunt at this range. I would(will!!!) try it on coyotes though. I always wince when I hear the word "ethical" spoken in reference to hunting. Of course there are some that feel that it is never ethical to kill any animal at all. I wonder if those same people would hold to their ethics in a situation of drought and famine where eating meat might be the only hope of bodily nourishment. I was participating in a crossbow message board last year when the subject of an ethical shooting distance arose and most in this particular forum agreed that all crossbow hunters should limit their shots at whitetails to less than 35 yards. It was determined through calculation that even with the speed of the arrow from the most powerful crossbow, the sound waves of the release would reach the ears of the whitetail in time for the dear to react before the arrow arrived at it's intended target. Those guys viciously chewed me up and spit me out when I disagreed with the blanket statement that discounted any other factors than arrow speed and a whitetails evasive reaction to a sound. What about a very preoccupied buck on the trail of a doe in heat with the leaves blowing and other deer moving and a train whistle in the background? Shall I not take a 40 yard shot in spite of my 30+ years of hunting instincts just because it has been established that 35 yards is the ethical limit to shoot at deer? 100 yard shooting at prey with a crossbow is risky business even WITH a known distance but the thump of the crossbow release probably wouldn't be as pronounced at that range. I assume that the energy of the broadheaded arrow would be enough for good penetration at that distance. With a good shooting rest, little wind resistance, unimpeded shooting lane and laser verified distance to target why shouldn't the accomplished archer attempt the 100 yard shot? It surely wouldn't be me since I only am able to shoot at 50 yards maximum in my back yard. 100 yards across a bean field is a very long shot but if Bullwinkle is standing defiantly in the middle and if all conditions are in my favor, my instincts might tell me to take it if I routinely put my arrows into a 5-inch group at that distance. I can hear the distant sirens of the ethical police now. Doug
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Post by sw on Jun 9, 2009 6:46:02 GMT -5
:)Doug, I thought about my "ethical" comment some thru-out the night. I thought I need to re-word that statement. Then, your post seemed to almost mirror my thoughts. I shouldn't make these "ethical" decisions for others for sure, nor should others. That said, conditions being right, would I consider a 100yd shot? Well, that's a personal decision concerning "personal" limitations. I will continue long range practice, in field conditions, thru-out the summer and early fall. I will shoot out of my Texas style stand, my tree stands and field edges at my Block tgt and see just what my "personal" max ranges are for various conditions. I meant to stress the parameters with which we're dealing, not setting standards for others.
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Post by dougedwards on Jun 9, 2009 7:43:20 GMT -5
:)Doug, I thought about my "ethical" comment some thru-out the night. I thought I need to re-word that statement. Then, your post seemed to almost mirror my thoughts. I shouldn't make these "ethical" decisions for others for sure, nor should others. That said, conditions being right, would I consider a 100yd shot? Well, that's a personal decision concerning "personal" limitations. I will continue long range practice, in field conditions, thru-out the summer and early fall. I will shoot out of my Texas style stand, my tree stands and field edges at my Block tgt and see just what my "personal" max ranges are for various conditions. I meant to stress the parameters with which we're dealing, not setting standards for others. Steve.........I know that 100 yards is wayyyy too far for me to shoot but I do support the instincts of those hunters to make an informed decision based on hunting experience and expertise. I am also interested in the arrows that you are using. Does Parker make them? Doug
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Post by edge on Jun 9, 2009 10:36:55 GMT -5
I enjoy the long range videos and leave it to the shooter to decide whether to pull the trigger or not. At longrangehunting.com bringing up ethics is a violation! I personally like that When hunting, you and you alone have to make the decision. If you miss or wound, or kill cleanly it is only your decision that matters! There is much more to spooking deer than just sound, and personally 20 yards with a compound is about the worst for sound yet most shooters have no problem with 20 or 25 yards! When you get past 30 yards the sound blends in much more than 20 yards and I have never spooked a deer from bow sound past 30 yards. edge.
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Post by sw on Jun 9, 2009 19:29:55 GMT -5
I have never spooked a deer from bow sound past 30 yards. edge. Nor have I.
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Post by sw on Jun 10, 2009 19:20:01 GMT -5
Does Parker make them? Doug Doug, They are sold under the Parker name as well as Red Hot. I think they are likely the best ready made x-bow arrow available. That said, I think that likely even better arrows can be assembled. I'm planning on 20-22" QTs with brass inserts, Al moon nocks, and 4" Blazer vanes. With 100g points should weigh appx 507gs. I will strip the 2" Duravanes from 2 Red Hots, place 4" Blazers, and compare with the QTs. I have ordered only enough to make 3 of the QT arrows. I am after long range accuracy. My thoughts: the Parker(Red Hot) with 145g points or 170g Spitfires with 4" Blazers will be as good as anything that can be made. I've found that higher FOCs seem to do better on higher speed x-bows.
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Post by dougedwards on Jun 11, 2009 5:20:58 GMT -5
Steve........ do you prefer the moon nocks and why?
Doug
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Post by sw on Jun 11, 2009 21:30:20 GMT -5
Steve........ do you prefer the moon nocks and why? Doug No, not necessairly. The Strykeforce string slightly touches the rail and doesn't seem to have any tendency "jump" over the arrow. If the string seems centered on the groove of the moon nock there might be some advantage to that style of nock. I just don't have enough experience with flat nocks to make an informed choice. I do know that plastic nocks make me nervous with hi performance x-bows. The Red Hots seem to have a very robust plastic nock. They are most easily damaged by being struck with another arrow.
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Post by dougedwards on Jun 16, 2009 16:22:05 GMT -5
Steve.....looking forward to you posting results of using the built QT's. I am a little baffled by the claim that weight forward arrows are beneficial. I guess I am still thinking like a compound bow archer. I always wanted the lightest arrow that would be robust enough to support the power exerted upon it by the string and limbs. Then I would adjust the balance point forward by adding brass inserts or heavy broadheads or reducing the weight of the vanes.
I am thinking that the manufacturers are making the weight forward arrows thicker toward the front end which will certainly add some weight but it would seem to also make the arrow stiffer toward the front. I have also seen slow motion videos of the arrow contorting during the release and it seems to be flexing somewhat uniformly back and forth until it stablizes in flight. It would seem that if the arrow is thicker thus stiffer toward the front then the propulsion would certainly change. However I am not engineer and am just thinking out loud. It sounds like a gimmick to me but there might be a very clear explaination for the prefered choice or arrow construction. I have searched the bow hunting websites to discover that some archers like them alot and others say they can see no real advantage to them.
Doug
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Post by ozark on Jun 16, 2009 21:44:09 GMT -5
With my crossbow it is ethical for me to shoot at 100 yards. A deer is as likely to die from a tree limb falling on it as me hitting it at that range. I enjoy reading about your practice SW. Cocking those must be like a course in body building. Good luck with you testing. Ben
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Post by deadeye on Jun 17, 2009 13:43:11 GMT -5
it is ethical @ 100yds if you can make the shot on a very consistent basis,the distance is irrevelant providing enough energy left. i once had a fellow try to scold me when i shot an elk@ 78yds successfully & he missed a bull elk@ 20yds with a recurve,i think jealously got the best of him while watching a long range shot he could not perform while i was in my range where i train from everyday.fyi-i know of a fellow i coached to 4th place in state championship which laid a doe to rest@ 122ydswith a compound bow,not quite as long as the fred bear shot. sw-that 2.4'' per yd will not be spaced evenly throughout that 10yds@90-100,of course you know that ;D ;D ;D have fun!
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