|
Post by encore50a on Apr 21, 2015 12:36:33 GMT -5
I'm a specifically referring to muzzleloaders. I would consider 650-700 Yds to be long range with one of these muzzleloaders You do know that they do shoot 1,000 yards with muzzleloaders?
|
|
|
Post by AJ on Apr 21, 2015 19:31:46 GMT -5
Killing paper is one thing but having enough energy to cleanly take the big - big game is another. These are 450-500 max for elk sized game.
|
|
|
Post by baggins197 on Apr 21, 2015 20:43:12 GMT -5
Azhunter, what size of Herrell's brake did you use? Outside diameter and thread pitch?
|
|
|
Post by azhunter on Apr 23, 2015 23:14:37 GMT -5
1000 yard muzzleloader shots: I am aware they can shoot that far. As stated, having enough energy to make a consistent, ethical kill is most important to me. I will not shoot beyond my limits. That being said, most shots are under 200 yards. That's easily doable with the Remi UML.
Brake: I am using the 1" stainless 3/4 brake. I believe it is 24 tpi.
|
|
ph
Button Buck
Posts: 9
|
Post by ph on May 18, 2015 18:37:20 GMT -5
Where are you buying the Remington UML for $799?? Interested in getting one for elk in NM.
|
|
|
Post by AJ on May 18, 2015 21:55:14 GMT -5
Where are you buying the Remington UML for $799?? Interested in getting one for elk in NM. I purchased mine from Gunbroker for $769 with shipping and no cc fees. The seller was Northern Firearms aka Reeds. I gave my local FFL guy $20 for the transfer and it's all good. I planned to use mine for elk in NM also but I did not draw. Oh well, maybe next year.
|
|
|
Post by schunter on May 19, 2015 6:54:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by kahuner on May 21, 2015 13:00:12 GMT -5
Where are you buying the Remington UML for $799?? Interested in getting one for elk in NM. I can vouch for Reed's in Walker, MN as I live in Walker. I buy everything from them! Just a first class outfit. They advertise on GB as Northern Firearms as AJ has said.
|
|
ph
Button Buck
Posts: 9
|
Post by ph on May 22, 2015 10:11:25 GMT -5
1000 yard muzzleloader shots: I am aware they can shoot that far. As stated, having enough energy to make a consistent, ethical kill is most important to me. I will not shoot beyond my limits. That being said, most shots are under 200 yards. That's easily doable with the Remi UML. Brake: I am using the 1" stainless 3/4 brake. I believe it is 24 tpi. AZhunter, I just ordered the 700 UML, along with the brake, Parker bullets, etc following your lead. Got a Vortex HS LR 4 x 16 x 50 for it. Thanks for all the good advice. Will post results when I get it shooting in a few weeks. Either you or your gunsmith asked Herrells to produce a Sabot brake, which I will try. Thanks again for your posts. Getting ready for NM elk!
|
|
|
Post by azhunter on Jun 10, 2015 11:26:34 GMT -5
That's great. I have had great luck with those components.
|
|
ph
Button Buck
Posts: 9
|
Post by ph on Jul 9, 2015 23:34:18 GMT -5
Started sighting in my 700 UM and had it on a chronograph today. Max fps was 2385 with 110 gr weighed 209 and Parker 275 MH. Velocity dropped as shot more, went up when I cleaned the barrel but dropped to 2310 fps after 4 shots without cleaning. Even with the changing muzzle velocity, it stayed very accurate with shots within an inch at 100 yds. Want to order a custom turret but not sure what mv to use. I cleaned the barrel for about 15 minutes before initial loading and shooting so no problems there and screws were generally tight when I opened the box. Feel very good about the accuracy, now need to figure out the mv, get a turret, and start shooting longer range.
|
|
|
Post by azhunter on Jul 30, 2015 0:52:54 GMT -5
Started sighting in my 700 UM and had it on a chronograph today. Max fps was 2385 with 110 gr weighed 209 and Parker 275 MH. Velocity dropped as shot more, went up when I cleaned the barrel but dropped to 2310 fps after 4 shots without cleaning. Even with the changing muzzle velocity, it stayed very accurate with shots within an inch at 100 yds. Want to order a custom turret but not sure what mv to use. I cleaned the barrel for about 15 minutes before initial loading and shooting so no problems there and screws were generally tight when I opened the box. Feel very good about the accuracy, now need to figure out the mv, get a turret, and start shooting longer range. Use the "cold bore" mv. None of the others are as important. This is what I did. Shoot one and let it cool all the way down. I did this 4x. Then I used the average of all the shots. Looking at my chrono data. I am getting right at 2400fps with a 300gr Parker MH and ~2470fps with 275gr. The original "2500fps" was from being rounded up.
|
|
ph
Button Buck
Posts: 9
|
Post by ph on Jul 30, 2015 7:58:43 GMT -5
Thanks much, I need all the help I can get. Hope to Scott again next week.
|
|
ph
Button Buck
Posts: 9
|
Post by ph on Sept 23, 2015 12:13:49 GMT -5
I have now shot my UML about 40 times. First 2-4 shots are very accurate, but then they start wandering. Tightened my scope and mounts and loc tited them. Shot today and first shot at 100 yds was in 1" bullseye. Put on a Kenton custom Turret, and the next shot was 1/2" from the first. Moved out to 200 and the next 2 shots were off by 3 ", one high, one low. Cleaned the barrel and let cool. Next shot was off the paper! Next 2 were 3" off and varied. This has been typical and can't figure out what is going on. Next time will start at 200 and then go out to 300.
|
|
|
Post by azhunter on Sept 23, 2015 13:43:18 GMT -5
The first two shots should be accurate at 100 yards. The 3rd and after will have accuracy problems because the bore is smoking hot. It weakens the sabot and throws the shot off. In my case, I could not hit the entire target (2'x 2')! Limit your shooting strings to 2 or 3 at the most. Occasionally, I will get a third shot clean but most of the time it is no where near the first two.
Regarding the shots to 200 yards. A muzzleloader is not a sniper rifle. It's not uncommon to shoot .5" groups with a good centerfire rifle. There are a lot of things to go into making the shot. This includes the seating pressure of the load, the bullet, the sabot, the heat in the barrel, optics or iron sights, environmental factors, and the shooter. There is no way to pinpoint the issue other than practice. That group at 3" is 1.5 MOA at 200 yards. It's definitely not stellar but the muzzleloader is Minute of Deer. Unless you practice often..... I mean a lot, that's ok by most standards. Most people cannot shoot that good with rifle!
|
|
|
Post by sfrace10 on Sept 23, 2015 14:11:51 GMT -5
Hi azhunter, I am new to this forum but was following your post very closely. I own a Rem UML, Savage 10 ML and have friends with Ultimate. I was introduced to the Ultimate by Thompson Long Range few years ago; this is why I jumped on the Remington soon it came out. I was in US last week for business and got a Harrell Sabot Muzzle Brake base on you suggestion. Would you mind sharing the inside diameter measurement of your muzzle brake? The instruction said to bore it 0,02" above the bullet and sabot O.D. If I do so the I.D. should be around 0,5265" but I measured the I.D. from an Ultimate and the I.D. is 0,5150"
Just trying to find the perfect measurement.
Thanks
|
|
ph
Button Buck
Posts: 9
|
Post by ph on Sept 23, 2015 15:45:22 GMT -5
The first two shots should be accurate at 100 yards. The 3rd and after will have accuracy problems because the bore is smoking hot. It weakens the sabot and throws the shot off. In my case, I could not hit the entire target (2'x 2')! Limit your shooting strings to 2 or 3 at the most. Occasionally, I will get a third shot clean but most of the time it is no where near the first two. Regarding the shots to 200 yards. A muzzleloader is not a sniper rifle. It's not uncommon to shoot .5" groups with a good centerfire rifle. There are a lot of things to go into making the shot. This includes the seating pressure of the load, the bullet, the sabot, the heat in the barrel, optics or iron sights, environmental factors, and the shooter. There is no way to pinpoint the issue other than practice. That group at 3" is 1.5 MOA at 200 yards. It's definitely not stellar but the muzzleloader is Minute of Deer. Unless you practice often..... I mean a lot, that's ok by most standards. Most people cannot shoot that good with rifle! Thanks much, I suspect I am shooting too fast although trying to slow down to cool things down. I appreciate the words of encouragement!
|
|
|
Post by azhunter on Sept 27, 2015 1:06:23 GMT -5
Hi azhunter, I am new to this forum but was following your post very closely. I own a Rem UML, Savage 10 ML and have friends with Ultimate. I was introduced to the Ultimate by Thompson Long Range few years ago; this is why I jumped on the Remington soon it came out. I was in US last week for business and got a Harrell Sabot Muzzle Brake base on you suggestion. Would you mind sharing the inside diameter measurement of your muzzle brake? The instruction said to bore it 0,02" above the bullet and sabot O.D. If I do so the I.D. should be around 0,5265" but I measured the I.D. from an Ultimate and the I.D. is 0,5150" Just trying to find the perfect measurement. Thanks The outside diameter isn't really that important. Mine is 1.00" but I have also had some turned down the the barrel OD. I think it's personal preference. To enforce the point, look at the brake on a howitzer. The inside diameter can be important. I have two RUML's one has a inside diameter of .512" and the other .520". Both shoot great. I hope this helps.
|
|
|
Post by azhunter on Sept 27, 2015 1:13:24 GMT -5
The first two shots should be accurate at 100 yards. The 3rd and after will have accuracy problems because the bore is smoking hot. It weakens the sabot and throws the shot off. In my case, I could not hit the entire target (2'x 2')! Limit your shooting strings to 2 or 3 at the most. Occasionally, I will get a third shot clean but most of the time it is no where near the first two. Regarding the shots to 200 yards. A muzzleloader is not a sniper rifle. It's not uncommon to shoot .5" groups with a good centerfire rifle. There are a lot of things to go into making the shot. This includes the seating pressure of the load, the bullet, the sabot, the heat in the barrel, optics or iron sights, environmental factors, and the shooter. There is no way to pinpoint the issue other than practice. That group at 3" is 1.5 MOA at 200 yards. It's definitely not stellar but the muzzleloader is Minute of Deer. Unless you practice often..... I mean a lot, that's ok by most standards. Most people cannot shoot that good with rifle! Thanks much, I suspect I am shooting too fast although trying to slow down to cool things down. I appreciate the words of encouragement! No problem. I suspect that will clear up your problem. If not, let me know and we will try it pinpoint it for you. Take care and good luck in the field. Remember, that a 1.5" moa rifle is a 6" group at 400 yards....... That's pretty good if YOU can do it
|
|
|
Post by encore50a on Sept 27, 2015 7:50:58 GMT -5
Thanks much, I suspect I am shooting too fast although trying to slow down to cool things down. I appreciate the words of encouragement! No problem. I suspect that will clear up your problem. If not, let me know and we will try it pinpoint it for you. Take care and good luck in the field. Remember, that a 1.5" moa rifle is a 6" group at 400 yards....... That's pretty good if YOU can do it I'd like to throw something out for thought, based on my personal experience and also that of another shooter using custom rifles and heavy charges of BH. If using heavy charges of BH, its best to swab between shots for the best consistent bench accuracy.
|
|
|
Post by sfrace10 on Sept 27, 2015 12:25:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the brake I.D. it is now at the gunsmith. I am out moose hunting but soon I am back I will give it a try and let you know. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by azhunter on Oct 7, 2015 0:05:20 GMT -5
encore50a:
I absolutely agree. All of my best groups come in that way. At the range, I swab between almost every shot.
|
|
ph
Button Buck
Posts: 9
|
Post by ph on Oct 7, 2015 8:53:59 GMT -5
I tried swabbing but still had problems with accuracy. As a last gasp before going back to my Knight, I lowered my powder charge to 100grains weighed. My accuracy improved dramatically as I was shooting 1" groups at 100 yds and 2-3 " groups at 200 and 300 yds. I remained remained pretty much right on with the custom turret so velocity must be similar, although I have not had time to shoot with a chronograph. I also have waited 5-7 minutes between shots. This suggested the sabot was either getting hot, but likely was not handling 110 g 209 well in my gun, as I had waited similar times between shots before. I also now will shoot with a dirty barrel as I find the first shot is off a few inches and then shots 2-8 are accurate. I now have 60+ shots getting things accurate enough to shoot an elk but finally feel comfortable, but have reprimed the casing 3-4 times. How many times are others finding they can reprime and keep using the original casings?
|
|
|
Post by azhunter on Oct 7, 2015 10:09:32 GMT -5
I have reloaded some 3-4 times just to see how long they will last. I mark mine with a Sharpie every time I load it. So far, so good....... I have seen no problems. Personally, running 110gr BH209, by weight, I would toss after 4 times anyways. At that point, it has done its job. Make sure there is no blow by in the case. When that happens, you will notice the inside of the case getting dirty. Once you see that, toss it. Otherwise, it can begin to gas cut your breach plug.
|
|
ph
Button Buck
Posts: 9
|
Post by ph on Oct 13, 2015 22:05:59 GMT -5
Thanks again, I will check my casings as a few are black inside. Hopefully when I find that big bull everything will work fine!
|
|
|
Post by sfrace10 on Nov 2, 2015 23:19:10 GMT -5
Hi guys,
Need some advice. When to the range today with my brake installed. Shooting 110gr of BH 209 with Parker 275, Harvester 300 and the Barnes from Remington. All that with different sabot. HPH12,HPH24,SHORT BLACK,CRUSH RIB BLACK CRUSH RIB RED.
All with poor accuracy.
I was able to retrieve some sabot after the shot and I am suspecting them to get destroyed by the brake.
My 10ML is making nice mushroom shape to the lower section of the sabot but this one is completely taking the skirt right of the sabot. I will try to post picture.
My brake internal bore is at 0.5290''
|
|
|
Post by sfrace10 on Nov 2, 2015 23:41:58 GMT -5
Hi guys, Need some advice. When to the range today with my brake installed. Shooting 110gr of BH 209 with Parker 275, Harvester 300 and the Barnes from Remington. All that with different sabot. HPH12,HPH24,SHORT BLACK,CRUSH RIB BLACK CRUSH RIB RED. All with poor accuracy. I was able to retrieve some sabot after the shot and I am suspecting them to get destroyed by the brake. My 10ML is making nice mushroom shape to the lower section of the sabot but this one is completely taking the skirt right of the sabot. I will try to post picture. My brake internal bore is at 0.5290'' Below are the picure. Top sabot are from RUM with brake and lower is 10ml w/of brake. Thanks 1drv.ms/1LNo2G0
|
|
|
Post by azhunter on Nov 2, 2015 23:42:22 GMT -5
What do you consider inaccurate?
Regarding you situation, It's hard to determine. Send me a pic of a sabot. I assume you read the thread. I assume you are letting the barrel cool and you are cleaning between shots. I can say from experience, the Remington sabots that come with their 250 grain bullets are the strongest sabot on the market. If your sabots look like spaghetti, they are likely deforming from heat from repetitive shots. Let it cool down. Two, personally, I get my best groups from a clean barrel.
My brake dimensions are above. I don't have one at .529. So I can't comment with any specifics. Is your brake a "radial" brake or is it ported to the left and right side? If left and right, I can see big problems.
|
|
|
Post by sfrace10 on Nov 2, 2015 23:58:53 GMT -5
What do you consider inaccurate? Regarding you situation, It's hard to determine. Send me a pic of a sabot. I assume you read the thread. I assume you are letting the barrel cool and you are cleaning between shots. I can say from experience, the Remington sabots that come with their 250 grain bullets are the strongest sabot on the market. If your sabots look like spaghetti, they are likely deforming from heat from repetitive shots. Let it cool down. Two, personally, I get my best groups from a clean barrel. My brake dimensions are above. I don't have one at .529. So I can't comment with any specifics. Is your brake a "radial" brake or is it ported to the left and right side? If left and right, I can see big problems. I clean between shot with butch's bore shine and dry patch. Like you will see on the picture the ''skirt '' of the sabot is getting riped off. The brake as a Harrell for ML. I will try to get an other one machined smaller in order to see if it make a difference and get this one polished inside to make sure there is not sharp edge inside. The lower sabot on the picture are from my 10 ML with 60 gr of vn 120 that a good hot load. Thanks for you help.
|
|
|
Post by encore50a on Nov 3, 2015 6:59:00 GMT -5
The RED sabots in your photo, look exactly like the sabots passing through the brake on my BP Xpress. However I'm using the H5045LB and a .452 bullet.
|
|