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Post by azhunter on Mar 23, 2015 1:41:31 GMT -5
I have read a lot about the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader and associated problems. I also currently own a Ultimate Firearms, Ultimate Muzzleloader (predecessor to the Remington) and a Bad Bull. I bought the Remington UML (as of last Friday I now have two) to compare the three. First, the Remington is a great muzzleloader. It's cost compared to the UF is over 50% less.
This is my personal take. The Remington UML is fantastic. I am punching .75" groups at 100 yards with Remington Accutip bullets and the green sabot. That green sabot is AWESOME. I am getting 2525fps with 110gr (weighed) BH209. This is just as accurate as my UF muzzleloader. The muzzleloader will shoot..... This combo makes the Remington good to 400 yards or so on deer and about 300 on elk. I know, I took a deer in 2013 at 387 yards and another in 2014 at 465 yards. Both one shot, bang flop kills.
If you change to a 275 Parker MH, oh boy...... That makes this muzzleloader good to go to 700 yards. Yes, it will get there accurately as well! I am getting 2500fps with 110gr (weighed) BH209 and MMP HPH12. This is the ticket for lead available hunts. This combo is deadly accurate. By moving to a 300 grain Parker MH velocity drops to 2350+/-. I am sticking with the 275MH.
At 275gr moving at 2500fps, the recoil is pretty stout. I would say like a light weight rifle in .338 Win Mag. I have also added brakes to the Rem UML to reduce the recoil. Boy did it work wonders! With the brake it kicks like a .308.... No sweat. As a side benefit, it also protects the lands at the muzzle.
I have shot BH209 in both the UF and Rem UML. I have not had any problems with either. I have a hundred or more rounds down the UF, no problem yet. If there is, I will replace the plug. It's better than shooting the crappy T7 mess. As mentioned previously, I bought another Rem UML (Friday) and will be selling the UF. I want to keep the brass components the same between the rifles. There are no velocity differences between the UF or the UML. The UF has a better barrel and fit and finish is a better as well.
I have not had any barrel problems with the Rem UML on either muzzleloader. They were both cleaned and shot. No problems. I can this. I bought the Rem UML for $799 + tax. Then another $200 for the brake and installation. For $1100 I have a muzzleloader that will get me to 700 yards if I do my part.
Not preaching, just being realistic. To the newbie's, do not buy either muzzleloader and think you will be shooting 300-500 yards without a lot of practice. That's not going to happen consistently. Consistently, being the key word in that sentence....... Wind is a big deal with most muzzleloaders. If you intend on taking shots at distance, please practice in wind..... As an example, @ 400 yards with the 250 grain Accutip, there is a drift of almost 3 feet! If you don't have the scope to make adjustments, it's very hard to Kentucky windage that much at 400 yards. It's the difference between a clean kill, a miss, and a wounded animal. As ethical hunters, we owe that respect to our quarry.
Arizona elk tags have hit credit cards. I know the family has two tags coming. Time to smell some BH209 or IMR4350 for the Bad Bull in my near future! After the Bad Bull gets back from Roger, I intend on writing an extensive write up on all three. It's good to get feedback from someone who actually owns and shoots all three. I can say this, they all have pros and cons........
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 4:17:07 GMT -5
good write up, nice to hear from someone that's shooting one with the factory tube on it..
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Post by 7mmfreak on Mar 23, 2015 5:29:46 GMT -5
Nice write up. Pictures?
Have you actually shot the 300MH side by side with the 275MH?
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Post by encore50a on Mar 23, 2015 6:42:20 GMT -5
Great write up. I have a couple friends that have been waiting for results like this. They've been wanting to pull the plug on the RU for quite some time but, they both wanted to read more good long range reviews prior to doing so. Thanks for the post!
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Post by hawghunter on Mar 23, 2015 7:19:50 GMT -5
It sound like you are getting great results for less than 1/3 the cost of the Ultimate Firearms Muzzleloader. The big plus is not having to shoot expensive and dirty Triple 7 pellets. I'm glad that Remington is working out their problems.
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Post by rambler on Mar 23, 2015 8:29:07 GMT -5
I have read a lot about the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader and associated problems. I also currently own a Ultimate Firearms, Ultimate Muzzleloader (predecessor to the Remington) and a Bad Bull. I bought the Remington UML (as of last Friday I now have two) to compare the three. First, the Remington is a great muzzleloader. It's cost compared to the UF is over 50% less. This is my personal take. The Remington UML is fantastic. I am punching .75" groups at 100 yards with Remington Accutip bullets and the green sabot. That green sabot is AWESOME. I am getting 2525fps with 110gr (weighed) BH209. This is just as accurate as my UF muzzleloader. The muzzleloader will shoot..... This combo makes the Remington good to 400 yards or so on deer and about 300 on elk. I know, I took a deer in 2013 at 387 yards and another in 2014 at 465 yards. Both one shot, bang flop kills. If you change to a 275 Parker MH, oh boy...... That makes this muzzleloader good to go to 700 yards. Yes, it will get there accurately as well! I am getting 2500fps with 110gr (weighed) BH209. This is the ticket for lead available hunts. This combo is deadly accurate. By moving to a 300 grain Parker MH velocity drops to 2350+/-. I am sticking with the 275MH. At 275gr moving at 2500fps, the recoil is pretty stout. I would say like a light weight rifle in .338 Win Mag. I have also added brakes to the Rem UML to reduce the recoil. Boy did it work wonders! With the brake it kicks like a .308.... No sweat. As a side benefit, it also protects the lands at the muzzle. I have shot BH209 in both the UF and Rem UML. I have not had any problems with either. I have a hundred or more rounds down the UF, no problem yet. If there is, I will replace the plug. It's better than shooting the crappy T7 mess. As mentioned previously, I bought another Rem UML (Friday) and will be selling the UF. I want to keep the brass components the same between the rifles. There are no velocity differences between the UF or the UML. The UF has a better barrel and fit and finish is a better as well. I have not had any barrel problems with the Rem UML on either muzzleloader. They were both cleaned and shot. No problems. I can this. I bought the Rem UML for $799 + tax. Then another $200 for the brake and installation. For $1100 I have a muzzleloader that will get me to 700 yards if I do my part. Not preaching, just being realistic. To the newbie's, do not buy either muzzleloader and think you will be shooting 300-500 yards without a lot of practice. That's not going to happen consistently. Consistently, being the key word in that sentence....... Wind is a big deal with most muzzleloaders. If you intend on taking shots at distance, please practice in wind..... As an example, @ 400 yards with the 250 grain Accutip, there is a drift of almost 3 feet! If you don't have the scope to make adjustments, it's very hard to Kentucky windage that much at 400 yards. It's the difference between a clean kill, a miss, and a wounded animal. As ethical hunters, we owe that respect to our quarry. Arizona elk tags have hit credit cards. I know the family has two tags coming. Time to smell some BH209 or IMR4350 for the Bad Bull in my near future! After the Bad Bull gets back from Roger, I intend on writing an extensive write up on all three. It's good to get feedback from someone who actually owns and shoots all three. I can say this, they all have pros and cons........ Are you having Bad Bull retro fit your BP and bolt with their upgrade??
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Post by rkrobson on Mar 23, 2015 8:51:32 GMT -5
azhunter, which brake did you have put on the Remington Ultimate? Iam asking as Ken says the small hole brake he uses is the only he found that works with sabots. Remington did several,improvements on the breech plug for sure, finer threads and case hardening definitely make for easier removal and less deformation of nipple by being hardened. Ive got 2 for relatives that Iam working with and so far Iam impressed as well, and I have three original Ultimates, two of which are carbon barreled and have brakes. These two Remmies should get brakes, let me know who will do this in AZ as thats where I live as well. Iam having both Remmies pillar bedded as there was forend contact and neither fit the stock very well, one laminate and one fiberglass stock. Thanks for the report, Ray
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Post by muznut on Mar 23, 2015 11:32:31 GMT -5
Azhunter, Is the rem uml you have been shooting wood lam or the B&C m40 ?
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Post by azhunter on Mar 23, 2015 14:00:06 GMT -5
I will try to address all the questions.
Yes, I have shot the 300MH and 275MH side by side. Personally, I prefer the 275MH or 275BE. Both are Parker bullets and have good BC's for a muzzleloader bullet.
Muzzle brake: I am using the Herrell's radial muzzle brake. It's $30 and is a dream to shoot. Call Keith or Brad at Phoenix Custom Rifles. They did a great job. As far as brakes, I would not use a side vented brake. I could see a problem with the sabot wanting to open and significantly affecting accuracy. I can't say for certain but it seems logical.
Bad Bull is replacing the barrel. I will address this in the muzzleloader write up. The muzzleloader has all the updates.
Last, the two Rem UML's are both laminate. I like the look better. I have many "black" rifles and wanted something different. I was in a huge storm with a laminate stock with my daughter last year. There were no problems with the laminate.
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Post by rambler on Mar 23, 2015 14:39:23 GMT -5
I will try to address all the questions. Bad Bull is replacing the barrel. I will address this in the muzzleloader write up. The muzzleloader has all the updates. I have a friend with a Bad Bull and they have offered to have him send it in and retro-fit another breech plug and bolt, something about the primer being seated in the new bolt, but not sure on that. $200.00 for the update.
Thanks for your response
rambler
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Post by azhunter on Mar 23, 2015 15:15:06 GMT -5
That's correct. There was a modification to the bolt face on the Bad Bull.
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Post by azhunter on Mar 23, 2015 15:39:29 GMT -5
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Post by 7mmfreak on Mar 23, 2015 16:59:05 GMT -5
Nice mule!
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Post by mtj555 on Mar 23, 2015 17:56:28 GMT -5
AZhunter. I have a bad bull and Roger is replacing my barrel as well. Hit me up in PM. I can't seem to message you on taptalk
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Post by kash913 on Mar 23, 2015 20:39:22 GMT -5
I had all the updates on my Bad Bull and I'm still not happy with it so I'm ripping apart and doing other things with it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 20:58:08 GMT -5
I'll second the skipping the Badbull upgrade, not so bad on a 700 action but it's a ruined for the xr100's.
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Post by azhunter on Mar 23, 2015 23:00:31 GMT -5
Thanks. The deer was taken in Arizona in November of 2013 with the Ultimate Firearms muzzleloader. It's a good muzzleloader. |
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Post by coues7 on Apr 4, 2015 10:17:01 GMT -5
Just drew an az antelope tag. Considering buying a Remington uml. Azhunter I tried to pm you. System won't let me. I pm'd you on cw.com
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Post by coues7 on Apr 7, 2015 22:18:42 GMT -5
What sabots produce the best results in the Remington uml?
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Post by azhunter on Apr 8, 2015 2:01:40 GMT -5
What sabots produce the best results in the Remington uml? The best sabot is hard to say. I have had fantastic results with the green sabot supplied with the 250 grain Remington Accutip. The sabots hold up very good to the pressure. I have also had excellent results with Barnes TMZ with the yellow sabots. I wish Remington or MMP would sell the green Remington sabot without the bullets. I would love to try some Parker 275MH with that sabot. |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Apr 8, 2015 4:51:48 GMT -5
Maybe you could buy a bunch of the accu tips and rob the sabots off them. Then try the accutips with an MMP sabot?
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Post by azhunter on Apr 9, 2015 10:50:45 GMT -5
That's exactly what I have done. I will be going next week to try them out. At $28 per 24, that makes for a very expensive sabot! I have some MMP's HPH12 and will see how they work with the Accutip. Frankly, I hope the Remi Green sabot works as well with the Parker 275MH. I will know next week.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Apr 9, 2015 23:47:40 GMT -5
MMP short black have held up to my NULA smokeless loads. I cant imagine the Rem Ultimate is creating more pressure than N110. Its the sabot Savage used to recommend. Its also about the largest loaded OD of all the MMP sabots.
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Post by azhunter on Apr 10, 2015 13:44:15 GMT -5
I have been using the MMP HPH12. I will try the short sabot. Thanks for the heads up.
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Post by AJ on Apr 10, 2015 22:51:13 GMT -5
Looking forward to your findings. My Rem UML will be here Monday and the scope in a week. Now to draw a tag.
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Post by azhunter on Apr 12, 2015 20:31:29 GMT -5
For anyone interested. I was using the MMP HPH24 in prior tests. The bullet / sabot went in pretty easy. Almost too easy. So today, I decided to try the MMP HPH12. It is much tighter and works fantastic. I am getting 2430fps with 110gr (weighed) BH209, a 275gr Parker Match Hunter. The groups are about 1". That's easily minute of deer / elk. I didn't even bother with trying the Remington green sabot. This is the zero for one and the Remington Accutip is the zero for the other. That way, I have a muzzleloader if long range shot + 400 yards is possible with the Parker Match Hunter. Then, I have lead free option for less than 400 yards. Best of both worlds!
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Post by AJ on Apr 15, 2015 21:04:24 GMT -5
Yeah, that will work for deer. For elk it is running out of steam about the 425 yard line though. I have a bunch of the 327 gr MH I want to run through the paces with my Rem UML. I am really surprised at how low the velocity is with 110 gr weighed BH209. I am getting 2350 fps with a 300 gr SST in my Omega with only 85.0 gr weighed, but it has a 28" barrel. Wow, I was hoping for 2450 fps with that much powder.
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Post by coues7 on Apr 19, 2015 23:33:36 GMT -5
This is great info. Johnny I look forward to meeting you. What scopes are you guys using for long range?
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Post by azhunter on Apr 20, 2015 13:22:22 GMT -5
This is great info. Johnny I look forward to meeting you. What scopes are you guys using for long range? It depends on what you consider long range. With the muzzleloader I use a Leupold Mark 4, 4-14 X 50. It is good for the shots taken with a smoke pole. For true long range 1000+, I use a Nightforce ATACR F1 5-25 X 56 and a 4-16 X 42. |
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Post by coues7 on Apr 20, 2015 22:25:27 GMT -5
I'm a specifically referring to muzzleloaders. I would consider 650-700 Yds to be long range with one of these muzzleloaders
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