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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 14:43:13 GMT -5
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Post by jsthntn247 on Jan 25, 2015 14:43:13 GMT -5
whats your thoughts on this. Is the only reason most don't like it is because rupture with a double load?
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Deleted
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 15:00:03 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 15:00:03 GMT -5
fluting in and of itself is not the cause of barrel rupture. JMO of course but barrel shank size and length makes a huge difference in containing the forces of a double load or excessive pressure situation. I have most of my barrels fluted BUT I always have a full size shank for the first 3-4" and start the fluting @ 5" or so. I feel this is relatively safe but again JMO.
taking metal away from a barrel will inherently weaken it from forces applied within, plain and simple. a big full size tube will be much stronger than a light profile barrel. same goes with a fluted vs unfluted barrel. the more metal taken away the less strength, be it by turning to a smaller dia on a lathe or by fluting.
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 17:47:43 GMT -5
Post by jims on Jan 25, 2015 17:47:43 GMT -5
I know it was discussed here at some length before but I do not know how to steer you to that topic.
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 19:57:15 GMT -5
Post by Richard on Jan 25, 2015 19:57:15 GMT -5
Hillbill has it right! IMHO, the main reason for guys fluting is the looks! They tend to look impressive and accurate Go t a benchrest match and it will be devoid of flutes. Why? They do nothing to enhance accuracy! Plain and simple. The amount of weight saved by fluting is not worth the expense. Richard
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 20:37:06 GMT -5
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Post by jsthntn247 on Jan 25, 2015 20:37:06 GMT -5
Hillbill has it right! IMHO, the main reason for guys fluting is the looks! They tend to look impressive and accurate Go t a benchrest match and it will be devoid of flutes. Why? They do nothing to enhance accuracy! Plain and simple. The amount of weight saved by fluting is not worth the expense. Richard 3/4 of a lb would be worth it to me if if it could be done safely
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 20:57:46 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 20:57:46 GMT -5
on most guns with a large dia barrel you are looking at 8oz tops, that would be on a typical #7 with 8 flutes and even that depends on who is doing the fluting. some makers will only take off half that. most modified sendero profile barrels are 4-6 ozs
Im not trying to talk you out of fluting, like I said 95% of the guns I do are fluted, most just for looks, some to get the weight down BUT I always have a substantial shank before the fluting starts.
Just shooting it straight with no bull. bottom line, If you flute or not your barrel must have a substantial shank. Just one old mans opinion....
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 20:58:45 GMT -5
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Post by bestill on Jan 25, 2015 20:58:45 GMT -5
Ive had 4 Douglas button rifled barrels and 2 were fluted and 2 were not . The fluted barrels were not as accurate shooters as the unfluted. Douglas barrel wouldnt flute barrel and said they didn't recommend it but i thought they looked better but accuracy wasn't. I should have listened to barrel maker. This is a wide open discussion but worth cking out Button rifles and fluting is typically not recommended by many barrel suppliers. Cut rifle barrels and fluting seems all good. I don't have all the technical info but sosomething to ck into.
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 21:12:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 21:12:54 GMT -5
it seems that the cut rifling process induces little to no stress into the barrel steel because the metal is being shaved away rather than hydraulically being reshaped as in drawing a button down the barrel. I have had many many buttoned barrels that were fluted that were bughole shooters, I wouldn't let that scare me away, If I were shooting benchrest competition I would skip it but for a hunting rig I doubt the receiving end will ever know the difference..
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 21:39:32 GMT -5
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Post by jsthntn247 on Jan 25, 2015 21:39:32 GMT -5
The barrel I have has 5" of shank. Was thinking of letting kampfeld do the fluting.
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 21:44:07 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 21:44:07 GMT -5
depending on the action used you should have a substantial shank. If its a 700 ML take away 1 3/4" or so and if its a cf about 7/8" or so..
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Fluting
Jan 25, 2015 23:00:12 GMT -5
Post by rkrobson on Jan 25, 2015 23:00:12 GMT -5
I have 2 45s smokeless muzzleloaders fluted, accuracy is fine .5 moa to 600 yds, 1 cf 300 RUM 5&1/2 Shilen Contour fluted, very accurate. Broughton barrels told me that if I was to flute their barrel they would do preliminary drill, send it to me and have my gunsmith flute it, then send it back and they would pull the finish button through the barrel, this is the only way they could guarantee it. There is a way to flute as an after thought, I was told the gunsmith will do it slower and possibly cooling the barrel some way. I personally only care about weight as I hunt out west and these guns are heavy, especially for an old man. Ray
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 11:25:47 GMT -5
Post by jsthntn247 on Jan 26, 2015 11:25:47 GMT -5
I'm not terribly old but its hard to tote a 14lb over a mile in the mud with 30lbs of gear on your back. I changed the scope, rings, base, sling and knocked off 2lbs. It's still a tad front heavy but, .5 - 3/4 lb off the front end might even that out.
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 11:32:54 GMT -5
Post by jims on Jan 26, 2015 11:32:54 GMT -5
You could also shorten the barrel some for less weight.
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 12:30:11 GMT -5
Post by rkrobson on Jan 26, 2015 12:30:11 GMT -5
I thought about carbon wrapping a 45' as I have two 50 done, but the carbon people told me without extensive tests being done or provided they would not do it, both Jense and Christensen Arms refused. Shortening the barrel is a good idea, I dont think any tests have been done with Blackhorn though and thats what I primarily use. Using fiberglass stocks helps as well. Ray
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 13:22:34 GMT -5
Post by norseman1 on Jan 26, 2015 13:22:34 GMT -5
I have 2 45s smokeless muzzleloaders fluted, accuracy is fine .5 moa to 600 yds, 1 cf 300 RUM 5&1/2 Shilen Contour fluted, very accurate. Broughton barrels told me that if I was to flute their barrel they would do preliminary drill, send it to me and have my gunsmith flute it, then send it back and they would pull the finish button through the barrel, this is the only way they could guarantee it. There is a way to flute as an after thought, I was told the gunsmith will do it slower and possibly cooling the barrel some way. I personally only care about weight as I hunt out west and these guns are heavy, especially for an old man. Ray What is the weight of your rigs all up???
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 13:28:00 GMT -5
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jan 26, 2015 13:28:00 GMT -5
Got a krieger on order....pretty fat one...fluting it...and probably the bolt to match. Debating on the finished length somewhere between 28 and 30 inches.
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 13:42:29 GMT -5
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Post by rkrobson on Jan 26, 2015 13:42:29 GMT -5
Think about 26" I get 2700 fps with 68 grains H4198 300 Match Hunter or 310 ASG Fullform and last week shot the 270 grain parker Emax with 76 grains of H 4198 3000 feet per second, 1/2 moa, just saying, a couple of inches won't add much weight either, all with Hankins system.
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 16:44:14 GMT -5
Post by jims on Jan 26, 2015 16:44:14 GMT -5
For that weight of bullets they are really humming.
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 18:31:36 GMT -5
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 26, 2015 18:31:36 GMT -5
I thought about carbon wrapping a 45' as I have two 50 done, but the carbon people told me without extensive tests being done or provided they would not do it, both Jense and Christensen Arms refused. Shortening the barrel is a good idea, I dont think any tests have been done with Blackhorn though and thats what I primarily use. Using fiberglass stocks helps as well. Ray Contact Teludyne about a sleeve if you are interested in going that route; similar to carbon wrapping. If you need contact info PM me but they are on the net. Talk to Dave Bailey.
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 18:47:50 GMT -5
Post by 12ptdroptine on Jan 26, 2015 18:47:50 GMT -5
I believe Fluting like Beauty......is in the eye of the beholder..... There is no need for it....however we all have our reason for doing or not doing it. Drop
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 22:05:53 GMT -5
Post by rkrobson on Jan 26, 2015 22:05:53 GMT -5
norseman1, 3-45s 10.5 to 11 lbs, without slings or load. Carbon wrapped 50 Ultimate 8.75 lbs, all these in McMillan Htg stocks except 1 in a HS Precision. I know some shoot heavier rifles but I see no need, my typical hunt in Colorado starts out at 8000' to 9000 elevation and I may go to 12000' plus in a day glassing above timberline. When you put these guns on your shoulder for 3 hour hikes uphill 1 lb is huge, I dont see a need for a longer barrel or heavy contour with the accuracy and velocity I get, just my take, Ray
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 22:17:37 GMT -5
Post by jims on Jan 26, 2015 22:17:37 GMT -5
If Colorado would let you use the Encore/H&R etc. that Slufoot and others build the weight on those I think is considerably less.
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Fluting
Jan 26, 2015 22:41:21 GMT -5
Post by rkrobson on Jan 26, 2015 22:41:21 GMT -5
Jims I built an Encore DD 45 Pacnor for Colorado, I just did not like the "fit" of the gun, it shot fine, but Iam so used to the Remington actions on Mcmillan Htg stocks and the feel, guess I was to old to switch, Iam 6'3" and 225 lbs and that Encore felt too small. I sold it to one of Dave Daubs friends.
7mmfreak, I watched the video on Teludyne, I never knew that was out there. I wonder what kind of weight one of these cannons could loose. I think that bareel size will fit in a Htg stock, Ray
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Fluting
Jan 27, 2015 9:17:28 GMT -5
Post by miketodd58 on Jan 27, 2015 9:17:28 GMT -5
norseman1, 3-45s 10.5 to 11 lbs, without slings or load. Carbon wrapped 50 Ultimate 8.75 lbs, all these in McMillan Htg stocks except 1 in a HS Precision. I know some shoot heavier rifles but I see no need, my typical hunt in Colorado starts out at 8000' to 9000 elevation and I may go to 12000' plus in a day glassing above timberline. When you put these guns on your shoulder for 3 hour hikes uphill 1 lb is huge, I dont see a need for a longer barrel or heavy contour with the accuracy and velocity I get, just my take, Ray I agree 1lb can be huge. My first trip out west humping the mountains with a 12 lb scoped 375 h&h rifle taught me something. Humping 8 miles or so a day is not the same as driving a ATV to a box stand and sitting for the day. The next year I went with a 10lb scoped 300 win mag and that seemed heavy. The following year I went with a 8lb scoped .308 and that felt about right. Most factory muzzleloaders start in the neighborhood of. 7.5 lbs from what I see. With a conventional 3x9x40 scope, mounts and sling your pushing 10 lbs. Back on topic. Fluting?? Yes it looks cool. Does it really gain you anything performance wise? Most agree NO. Fluting with the heaviest of contours usually only shave 4-8 ounces. Not worth it for the cool factor IMHO.
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Fluting
Jan 27, 2015 13:33:49 GMT -5
Post by norseman1 on Jan 27, 2015 13:33:49 GMT -5
norseman1, 3-45s 10.5 to 11 lbs, without slings or load. Carbon wrapped 50 Ultimate 8.75 lbs, all these in McMillan Htg stocks except 1 in a HS Precision. I know some shoot heavier rifles but I see no need, my typical hunt in Colorado starts out at 8000' to 9000 elevation and I may go to 12000' plus in a day glassing above timberline. When you put these guns on your shoulder for 3 hour hikes uphill 1 lb is huge, I dont see a need for a longer barrel or heavy contour with the accuracy and velocity I get, just my take, Ray Thank you Sir.Thats a lot of weight to carry around The Mountains.The carbon wrapped 50 Ultimate would be more to my liking.noreseman1
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