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Post by cougariii on Dec 18, 2014 4:44:29 GMT -5
Well after reading about the smokeless Ml's I am thinking I want to have one. I have a CVA Optima V2 and a brand new Knight Disc Extreme in 52 cal. I also have an almost new 870 with cantilever rifled barrel. I think I can maybe get close to $1000 for the three. I am not sure that would be enough to have a build done unless I do it myself but kind of leary doing that. I want a 200 yard gun without really even thinking about it. I don't really know the ballistics on the smokeless guns so is it a possibility to have a 200 yard gun with basically not aiming high so to say?
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Dec 18, 2014 6:05:41 GMT -5
If all you want is a 200 yd gun with no holdover worries you need look no further than a stock 50 cal Savage. Then....after you get used to using that and want more, you can have someone put a custom barrel on it. However, if 200 yds is your limit and you aren't looking for fancy stuff, the stock gun will do what you want very easily.
All you need for a MPBR of 200 yds is book loads and a 2 1/2 - 3" high @ 100 yds and you won't be any lower than that at 200 yds.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Dec 18, 2014 6:45:42 GMT -5
Personally I would srart from scratch with a Rem 700 Ml action. I have had 2 savages new. Neither would shoot consistantly...and that was with spending 300 dollars on powder sabot and bullet combinations. Problem is you MIGHT....get a good one. I pulled both my barrels off and went Pacnor .45 and never looked back. All my .45s are capable of sub moa. And 200 yds is a chip shot. The Rem action will set you back less than half of what a savage will cost. There are a few here that got good savage barrels....but a lot more of us who didnt. Read here there will be lots.of good advice
good luck
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Post by dans on Dec 18, 2014 7:25:11 GMT -5
You should be able to put together a .45 on a rem ML action for close to $1000, without all the frills. Labor will be more. Confidence and performance at 200 yards and beyond, priceless. Luke on the Arrowhead Sporting goods site says $650 for parts and $100 to assemble the rifle with a PacNor barrel and drop you provide the donor rifle. You might as well get a smooth or full form die and go sabotless from the get go.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 7:30:40 GMT -5
Get you optima elite bull barrel 45/70 on gunbroker and have slufoot convert it with a savage plug....under $500...200yd deer killer..problem solved...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 7:36:31 GMT -5
Get you optima elite bull barrel 45/70 on gunbroker and have slufoot convert it with a savage plug....under $500...200yd deer killer..problem solved... He has an Optima V2 which is not an Optima Elite. Two different guns one with interchangeable barrels and one without. He has the one without. Sell them smokers off and get in touch with Luke at smokelessmz for a .45 MacGowen build price on a 700ML action. If you supply the action a grand should do it with some left over for bullets, sabots, wads and a pound of powder  |
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Post by 03mossy on Dec 18, 2014 8:09:22 GMT -5
Or go the route I did and get a Stevens or Savage short action and add a custom barrel from luke. You will never regret it.
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Post by sw on Dec 18, 2014 8:30:07 GMT -5
I have 3 ML2s with 45 cal barrels, another with a 40 cal barrel. 2 of the 45s are custom builds. I prefer the 40 and 45s over the 50 original. I also have a H&R HandiRifle 45-70 Slufoot conversion. So, a lot of experience and a ton of money spent on 40/45 smokeless. Only 1 50 original. The 50 original will shoot 275MH bullets at 2380'/sec (45g VV-110) MOA to 250 yds. 300 SST 2 1/2" 3-shot gps @200 yds. The stock gun will get the job done. Which gun do I carry when a grandchild or daughter in law isn't using it: the H&R. 250 yds or less probable range - then it doesn't matter to me - 50/275MH or 45 with a 195B.
If I had no smokeless MLer, I'd get a Slufoot conversion on one of the various 45-70 breakopen rifles.
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Post by 10ga on Dec 18, 2014 9:07:07 GMT -5
What SW said above X2.
Quickest, easiest route for a SML newbie. Do or get a conversion. 200 yard gun easy. Not breaking the bank and you will learn a whole bunch about sml. Get a H&R or a break action 45-70 of choice, get a breech plug installed and muzzle crowned for ML. Contact Luke for a folding loading rod and bullets and sabots. Then powder and 209 primers and decent glass on top and you are in the business of killing deer easily out to 200+. You can do the whole deal, glass and all for less than 6C. Remember that the glass you put on your ML should be 50% or more of the cost of the rifle. So a $800 rifle is a 1200 rig or a 1000 rifle is a 1500 rig. JMHO. 10 ga
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Post by 1gifford on Dec 18, 2014 10:13:32 GMT -5
My first question would be. What kind of hunting to you plan to do with it? Sitting in a deer stand with a nice rest available or carrying your gun through the woods looking for deer? My Sav/Brux is a heavy gun to carry around...That being said my carry gun
is a CVA APEX 45-70 that has a Slufoot conversion.
Pro's
lightweight tack driver at anything under 200....haven't shot further
shoots Barnes .451's without sizing
Slufoot does great work and quick turnaround.
Con's
being a lightweight gun it can have some kick if shooting targets. Hunting you will never notice
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Dec 18, 2014 10:14:37 GMT -5
Ifn your just looking for a deer killer then a break open is good.....but if you ever want to grow with it you are limited as to what you can shoot....i still suggest srarting with a 700 and the sky is the limit from there. Anything from squirrel loads to water buffalo.....and out to 400 yds or more if you ever want to
just my opinion
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Post by Richard on Dec 18, 2014 10:18:22 GMT -5
Lots of good information in the above posts but what it comes down to is what you want and how you want it to look and how much you can afford without breaking the bank or getting in hot water with the wife If you have to buy the Savage ML II and then get the .45 barrel? I would personally opt for the Rem. 70ML and do the conversion. If you can find a good deal on the Rem., that would be the better choice. They can be had for under $150 but you have to look! No everyone reads Doug's and knows how good these actions are for conversion. I got one for $100 and another for $40. Both blued. Yes they had a little pitting where the bolt nose engages the BP but so what? It does not hurt anything. A little sand paper and some cold blue. The bolt nose gets a new piece put on anyway. The firing pin and spring get replaced. Even the cheap ones usually have decent bluing on the exterior. Luke MAY??? screw the new barrel on the action and the bolt conversion for $100?  ? Kind of doubt it but.... He is not pillar bedding a new stock for that amount and any other work. I would generally feel that with the average cost of a used 700ML with a new Boyds stock pillar bedded and a McGowan barrel, recoil lug, bolt nose kit, BP you are looking at around $1200 to $1300 ready to pull the trigger.............Bushing plug a little more, fluted Brux barrel +$200, better recoil pad, extended bolt handle..........There are no end to the bells and whistles you can add Richard |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 10:28:32 GMT -5
I put my McRem together for $900. That was with a Boyds laminate stock. I found the Remington 700 ss ml at a local pawn shop for $250. With scope I have $1300 in it.
Honestly a CVA apex would be the closes thing to a bolt gun as far as accuracy in my opinion.
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Post by dans on Dec 18, 2014 10:49:55 GMT -5
Hey Richard that $100 figure I got off of Luke's website. Haven't talked to him and don't know if the page needs updated. So maybe $$$ may be different.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 12:41:14 GMT -5
Get you optima elite bull barrel 45/70 on gunbroker and have slufoot convert it with a savage plug....under $500...200yd deer killer..problem solved... He has an Optima V2 which is not an Optima Elite. Two different guns one with interchangeable barrels and one without. He has the one without. Sell them smokers off and get in touch with Luke at smokelessmz for a .45 MacGowen build price on a 700ML action. If you supply the action a grand should do it with some left over for bullets, sabots, wads and a pound of powder The whole gun "optima elite" with 45/70 ss bull barrel...are on sale NOW on gunbroker for $299...plus shipping...The guy had 13 New In Box last I checked.... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 13:09:16 GMT -5
He has an Optima V2 which is not an Optima Elite. Two different guns one with interchangeable barrels and one without. He has the one without. Sell them smokers off and get in touch with Luke at smokelessmz for a .45 MacGowen build price on a 700ML action. If you supply the action a grand should do it with some left over for bullets, sabots, wads and a pound of powder The whole gun "optima elite" with 45/70 ss bull barrel...are on sale NOW on gunbroker for $299...plus shipping...The guy had 13 New In Box last I checked.... Looked for the optima elite only seen one. Can you post a link to the rifles your talking about? |
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Post by Richard on Dec 18, 2014 13:12:48 GMT -5
Dans.........you may be right.......... on the bolt nose and barrel installation; but as I say, that would not include doing a bedding job along with it. If he could do the entire build for that price I would send my guns to him; If he could build them as good as mine Richard |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 13:25:43 GMT -5
auction #457306158 cva elite stalker ss45/70...from sportsman'soutfitters
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 15:28:04 GMT -5
auction #457306158 cva elite stalker ss45/70...from sportsman'soutfitters Thanks sml I see why I couldn't get the optima elite up, it's actually a stalker and little different than the optima elite forgive me I take things literally it's an issue I have.  This would be a great starting point for someone. www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=457306158 |
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Post by cougariii on Dec 18, 2014 22:40:39 GMT -5
Wow. You guys gave me lots of info. I think I would prefer to not have break open. I mainly will be in a treestand or sitting in a blind so carrying the gun is not a problem. I carried a Remington 870 for years and its pretty heavy. I think I may have a found a MLII from a friend that wants to get rid of it. Just waiting on a price from him. If not to high I may just go that route and start there. I can always upgrade the barrel if need be to a 45. I don't think I can go wrong in whatever choice I make. I am shooting my CVA with 100 grains (volume) of Blackhorn and a 250 SST. What kind of bump in performance can I realistically expect to see with going to smokeless?
I appreciate all the info. Thanks guys.
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Post by fishhawk on Dec 18, 2014 22:59:27 GMT -5
When you go smokeless, sabotless, and use higher bc bullets, what would you say to 500yds or more?
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Post by jims on Dec 19, 2014 2:00:52 GMT -5
In the load information it lists various combos and stats. Certainly easier cleaning.
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? Kind of doubt it but.... He is not pillar bedding a new stock for that amount and any other work. I would generally feel that with the average cost of a used 700ML with a new Boyds stock pillar bedded and a McGowan barrel, recoil lug, bolt nose kit, BP you are looking at around $1200 to $1300 ready to pull the trigger.............Bushing plug a little more, fluted Brux barrel +$200, better recoil pad, extended bolt handle..........There are no end to the bells and whistles you can add 