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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 17:35:19 GMT -5
Another breakthrough..maybe..a single that's not temperature sensitive...Great shooting also....You and 7mmfreak are going to come up with the ultimate bullet ,no doubt...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 11:25:32 GMT -5
-20*F Wind NW 15-20 B-17 Bux .458 31" IMR4831 (no powder amount to be given) QL says the load is at ~ 47.5 kpsi 327 Match Hunter CCI-M 209 primer .041" pure tungsten bushing 7/32" PFC 3075 fps on Magnetospeed V3
This velocity is the same as what I was getting with the temperature at 1*F. I was getting 3070-3090 with the same load. So at colder temps the powder seems to be fairly stable.
Earlier this week I had the gun pre-loaded in the house at 72*F and walked directly outside and shot and got a velocity of 3115 fps
So in a 92*F temperature drop the velocity dropped ~ 40 fps. So somewhere from 72*F to 0*F there is instability in the powder and velocities. Since the windchill is -40*F today I won't be doing much shooting today. But I can leave the loaded gun in the heated garage at 40*F and see what the velocity is at, at 40*F with the same load. Powder ignition and function was flawless with the CCI-M 209 primer and the .041" bushing at -20*F
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 11:36:07 GMT -5
Awesome and interesting info. Thanks for your efforts and sharing them.
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Post by rambler on Jan 4, 2015 11:37:26 GMT -5
Wow that is some seriously cold weather
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Post by rangeball on Jan 5, 2015 13:41:53 GMT -5
Any chance you can fling a full formed 310 APB with the .040 bushing and 7/32 pfc and 70gr of H4198 and a mag 209 to compare to what you saw in warm temps? That would be sweet We've got the cold now, but I wasn't able to chrony the load when it was warm so I'm missing a data point. I believe Zen was going to test this as well but haven't seen him post for a while. In a normal plug/.030 bushing FPS dropped off in cold temps. I'm hoping the .040 and larger PFC channel prevents FPS loss like the Jeff's LRMP system.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 15:54:45 GMT -5
We've got the cold now, but I wasn't able to chrony the load when it was warm so I'm missing a data point. I believe Zen was going to test this as well but haven't seen him post for a while. Zen is around just super busy. One thing with Zen is he only smooth forms so a full form test won't be possible. Zen had a miss fire around 20° with a straight load of 4198 and the 275 BE's. He's not exactly sure why it happen but for hunting purposes we've decided that a duplex is the only way to got go. Especially when your dropped down on a 180" mule deer and the gun doesn't go off. I'm sure Zen will see this post and he should chime in. Straight loads are something we are working towards yet we need more testing at colder weather and more positive ignition. I looked for some CCI mag primers today and didn't see any. All I have is Win209.
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Post by rangeball on Jan 5, 2015 15:56:48 GMT -5
Thanks. Was he back to using the .030 bushing and stock PFC when the misfire occurred?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 16:31:35 GMT -5
Thanks. Was he back to using the .030 bushing and stock PFC when the misfire occurred? Yes he was and he had positive ignition before that happened just not exactly sure why it happened. He's not sure the modified .o4o bushing would have made a difference though either. We just figured when it comes to hunting why chance a miss fire on a deer when you can run a duplex and not have an issue.
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Post by Dave W on Jan 5, 2015 16:50:50 GMT -5
Thanks. Was he back to using the .030 bushing and stock PFC when the misfire occurred? Yes he was and he had positive ignition before that happened just not exactly sure why it happened. He's not sure the modified .o4o bushing would have made a difference though either. We just figured when it comes to hunting why chance a miss fire on a deer when you can run a duplex and not have an issue. Murphys Law, if it can happen, IT WILL.! That was terrible break !
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Post by lwh723 on Jan 5, 2015 17:11:02 GMT -5
Thanks. Was he back to using the .030 bushing and stock PFC when the misfire occurred? Yes he was and he had positive ignition before that happened just not exactly sure why it happened. He's not sure the modified .o4o bushing would have made a difference though either. We just figured when it comes to hunting why chance a miss fire on a deer when you can run a duplex and not have an issue. What primer?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 18:45:26 GMT -5
Win 209 primer is what he was using when he had the miss fire. I tried to find some CCI Mag primers today but no luck I'm wondering if that would help.
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Post by lwh723 on Jan 5, 2015 19:15:49 GMT -5
Win 209 primer is what he was using when he had the miss fire. I tried to find some CCI Mag primers today but no luck I'm wondering if that would help. Well, that would explain it. I still had ignition with the WIN209 in single digit temps, but saw major velocity drop off with a loose fitting bullet. CCI209M had no velocity fall off with loose or tight bullet. I know we all like the W209 because they seal better, but the vast majority of misfire stories I've read on here over the years have involved the W209. It's supposed to be -20F here on Wednesday, and I've had my gun loaded and outside with 70gr H4198 and 310APB since Saturday, so will do a chronograph reading with it.
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Post by Richard on Jan 5, 2015 20:13:06 GMT -5
I would think the magnum primers would be good insurance along with a duplex load to insure that 180 buck makes it to the freezer! I had a duplex with a very loose bullet last week that did not ignite. After re-seating the bullet (which was about 3" from the muzzle) on the now, mixed up duplex, I put in a CCI 209M primer and it went bang! But 100 fps slower than what the duplex would normally do with the Win.209. Richard
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 20:15:56 GMT -5
Any chance you can fling a full formed 310 APB with the .040 bushing and 7/32 pfc and 70gr of H4198 and a mag 209 to compare to what you saw in warm temps? That would be sweet We've got the cold now, but I wasn't able to chrony the load when it was warm so I'm missing a data point. I believe Zen was going to test this as well but haven't seen him post for a while. In a normal plug/.030 bushing FPS dropped off in cold temps. I'm hoping the .040 and larger PFC channel prevents FPS loss like the Jeff's LRMP system. You've got one too, right? Twist the moss off the cap of your 4198 jar, and let 'er rip! And another thing...who lost 150-200 fps with a .030" bushing, 4198 powder and a 209 primer in cold temps? Was the temp drop from 100*F to -273*K?
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Post by cuda on Jan 6, 2015 9:13:06 GMT -5
Ok here is a thought on the miss fires. Were they all with the accutrigger and did the shooter have full hand gloves on? In another thread it was the way the accutrigger was pulled that caused the miss fires. Could it all boil down to the accutrigger not the load and primer. We just might have to change the triggers to cure the miss fires. So that in cold weather we can wear gloves that cover the finger tips. I only use the flip open gloves so my finger tip is on the trigger. So Rifle Basix triggers for the guys with big glove in cold weather might cure this miss fire problem. For what we have invested in our guns the cost of a better trigger might well be worth it. Just the way I see it I might be wrong about this but I might be right too.
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Post by rangeball on Jan 6, 2015 9:53:35 GMT -5
Win 209 primer is what he was using when he had the miss fire. I tried to find some CCI Mag primers today but no luck I'm wondering if that would help. Well, that would explain it. I still had ignition with the WIN209 in single digit temps, but saw major velocity drop off with a loose fitting bullet. CCI209M had no velocity fall off with loose or tight bullet. I know we all like the W209 because they seal better, but the vast majority of misfire stories I've read on here over the years have involved the W209. It's supposed to be -20F here on Wednesday, and I've had my gun loaded and outside with 70gr H4198 and 310APB since Saturday, so will do a chronograph reading with it. Luke, which bushing and PFC size?
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Post by lwh723 on Jan 6, 2015 9:55:25 GMT -5
040 bushing. Stock PFC. I don't think enlarging the PFC does anything to help with ignition, just helps protect the primer with certain loads.
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Post by rangeball on Jan 6, 2015 9:55:44 GMT -5
And another thing...who lost 150-200 fps with a .030" bushing, 4198 powder and a 209 primer in cold temps? Was the temp drop from 100*F to -273*K? I'm not sure of the specifics but Savage Shooter found velocity loss with straight loads of 4198 in colder temps and developed a great duplex with the 310 APB to avoid it.
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Post by rangeball on Jan 6, 2015 9:57:50 GMT -5
040 bushing. Stock PFC. I don't think enlarging the PFC does anything to help with ignition, just helps protect the primer with certain loads. Thanks. I had mine enlarged as it was reported to keep the PFC clean from carbon build up.
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