|
Post by mtj555 on Nov 22, 2014 9:08:29 GMT -5
Well, I am back from Afghanistan and I now have a Swinglock adjustable smooth form die after all these years. I will be sizing bullets for my Bad Bull and have a few questions. The 275 BE I would get from Bad Bull varied in loading pressure from bullet to bullet. Some went down easily and some required all of my 200lbs to push down the barrel. I apologize upfront for this long post and if I am beating any dead horses.
I have about 80 275MH which have already been sized by Bad Bull but I dislike the bands he cuts on them. I couldn't push them down the barrel because they were not sized properly or maybe he only sized them once and the spring back with the thicker jacket of the MH? I also have a box of Parker 270Emax that are are new and do not have the bands cut on them. I dislike the bands because when I weight the Parkers he sizes, the bullet weight varies by a couple of grains. I know it is probably impossible to turn the bullets on a lathe and remove the same amount of material each time so I have them in lots according to weight. I know he does the bands to help loading pressure but I dont think its necessary.
I read posts on here about sizing and see people have different opinions on how loose or tight they size. Some people have to hammer the bullets down and others like Jeff from Hankins Muzzleloaders can load his with one hand. I messaged him regarding his sizing method but have not heard anything back. Please feel free to chime in Jeff in this thread. I also understand I need to find what my particular SML prefers
Currently I am using the only recommended powder in the bad bull which is IMR4350. I have not experimented with anything other than 140 grains of IMR 4350 because it has been shooting very well for me and honestly didn't feel like I was knowledgeable enough to experiment safely. Bad Bull states nothing less than 130 grains and I assume because its pressure starved and wont ignite reliably with less than 130 grains ands that's probably why it's not a favorite powder used on this board even those with guns built of CF actions. I checked a couple stores around the area and plan on getting some IMR4198 to try as soon as find some.
I installed the Swinglock die in my rock chucker the other night. I was nervous my bench wasn't braced enough to size the parkers but I was amazed at how easily they do size. I have the Castrol Stick wax recommend by Tom Post. I made small adjustments with the die until I was able to load the 275MH in my Bad Bull. I didn't even think I was sizing them because of how easily they pushed through the die.
I know I need to experiment with what my rifle likes but if I size them to load as easily as the bullets in Jeff's rifles am I risking ignition issues with 4350? I use a wonder wad on top of the powder. I am a novice at hand loading and have a micrometer and caliper. However, it's frustrating to me when I measure things because the variance in measurements by how much pressure you put on the instrument. 7mmfreak on here has been teaching me how to hand load. The more I load, the more obsessed I get with this. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Specifically if I size the parkers loose as Jeff does in his rifles, with using 4350 will it cause potential ignition issues? I like how easily his load and he is still getting great accuracy. What do you recommend as a starting load of 4198 and max load of 4198 in bad Bull. Roger will not discuss any other powder besides IMR4350. I know for liability reasons. Thanks for any guidance you can provide.
|
|
|
Post by jims on Nov 22, 2014 9:33:16 GMT -5
I do not know how the Bad Bull breechplug compares to Jeff's design. They say Jeff's design does not require as much pressure for ignition. When I full form I do not like to hammer down the bullets. Some may feel that is best but I prefer a firm engagement but not battered down. This is for several reasons, in field conditons or cold etc. I do not want a stuck bullet half way down, I am in a stand with not all available tools to correct the situation nor the time. The pressure I use has given ignition and accuracy and no problems. With that said I have a .40 that uses factory stock bullets with no sizing dies but knurling. The bullets almost fall to the breech plug. That has always bothered me but I shoot a duplex and have always had ignition. I do not like the looseness but it works. Now that uses the Ric Bibby breechplug and it is a bit shorter so that may be of assistance. Since you have a Swinglock full form die you might email him. I have some of his dies and he was always helpful to me when I PMed him with questions. I hope that helps a little and does not muddy the waters. thanks for your service also.
|
|
|
Post by hankinsrfls on Nov 22, 2014 9:51:06 GMT -5
Hello,,, sorry I haven't gotten back sooner but I been hunting the last two weeks and the season is over tomorrow.
Couple things with the bad bull. Before you shoot any other powder make sure that the rifle does not have a powder chamber in it requiring 130 grains of powder to fill it. If it does and you only use 78 grains of 4198 then you will push your bullet into the chamber causing catastrophic failure for sure. Next,, the load should still fire with loose fitting bullets even using 130 grains of 4350, if it does not it is because of a bad ignition system, nothing to do with the pressure of the bullet. To remedy this problem you can send the rifle to me and I'll convert it using my system. I know that bad bull does some modifications to the bolt face and depending on weather or not that can be reversed or not may require a new bolt. Sizing the Parker bullets is very easy. It only take a little bit to get them to fit.. The rings that are cut into your MH are expansion rings and should make the bullet load harder. Some barrels require the bullets to be bigger than .4515 so this is how they do that. Also bad bull use Shilen barrlsl on his rifles. These barrels are in my opinion the worst custom barrel on the market. I know people will argue with me on this but out of the hundreds of rifles I've built, Shilen barrels have always been the hardest for me to get to shoot. I quite using them 8 to 10 years ago and will not use them again. Besides these barrels cost much less to buy and I'm the kind of guy that believes you get what you pay for most of the time...an exception is when you pay $4350.00 for a bad bull rifle and get nothing but the rifle.,, .. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Nov 22, 2014 9:55:30 GMT -5
mtj555............Glad your back in one piece..........Thanks again for serving!
Sorry I cannot help you on this one as I do not have a Bad Bull and do not shoot those large amounts of slow powders.
Richard
|
|
|
Post by rambler on Nov 22, 2014 9:57:55 GMT -5
Well, I am back from Afghanistan and I now have a Swinglock adjustable smooth form die after all these years. I will be sizing bullets for my Bad Bull and have a few questions. The 275 BE I would get from Bad Bull varied in loading pressure from bullet to bullet. Some went down easily and some required all of my 200lbs to push down the barrel. I apologize upfront for this long post and if I am beating any dead horses. I have about 80 275MH which have already been sized by Bad Bull but I dislike the bands he cuts on them. I couldn't push them down the barrel because they were not sized properly or maybe he only sized them once and the spring back with the thicker jacket of the MH? I also have a box of Parker 270Emax that are are new and do not have the bands cut on them. I dislike the bands because when I weight the Parkers he sizes, the bullet weight varies by a couple of grains. I know it is probably impossible to turn the bullets on a lathe and remove the same amount of material each time so I have them in lots according to weight. I know he does the bands to help loading pressure but I dont think its necessary. I read posts on here about sizing and see people have different opinions on how loose or tight they size. Some people have to hammer the bullets down and others like Jeff from Hankins Muzzleloaders can load his with one hand. I messaged him regarding his sizing method but have not heard anything back. Please feel free to chime in Jeff in this thread. I also understand I need to find what my particular SML prefers Currently I am using the only recommended powder in the bad bull which is IMR4350. I have not experimented with anything other than 140 grains of IMR 4350 because it has been shooting very well for me and honestly didn't feel like I was knowledgeable enough to experiment safely. Bad Bull states nothing less than 130 grains and I assume because its pressure starved and wont ignite reliably with less than 130 grains ands that's probably why it's not a favorite powder used on this board even those with guns built of CF actions. I checked a couple stores around the area and plan on getting some IMR4198 to try as soon as find some. I installed the Swinglock die in my rock chucker the other night. I was nervous my bench wasn't braced enough to size the parkers but I was amazed at how easily they do size. I have the Castrol Stick wax recommend by Tom Post. I made small adjustments with the die until I was able to load the 275MH in my Bad Bull. I didn't even think I was sizing them because of how easily they pushed through the die. I know I need to experiment with what my rifle likes but if I size them to load as easily as the bullets in Jeff's rifles am I risking ignition issues with 4350? I use a wonder wad on top of the powder. I am a novice at hand loading and have a micrometer and caliper. However, it's frustrating to me when I measure things because the variance in measurements by how much pressure you put on the instrument. 7mmfreak on here has been teaching me how to hand load. The more I load, the more obsessed I get with this. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Specifically if I size the parkers loose as Jeff does in his rifles, with using 4350 will it cause potential ignition issues? I like how easily his load and he is still getting great accuracy. What do you recommend as a starting load of 4198 and max load of 4198 in bad Bull. Roger will not discuss any other powder besides IMR4350. I know for liability reasons. Thanks for any guidance you can provide. Sell the BadBull and have another sml made the right way. 7mm can certainly help out there also
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 9:59:09 GMT -5
Yes , first of all make sure that there isn't a powder chamber in the barrel that requires you to use 130 grains of 4350. If there isn't a powder chamber your options are endless. With a 4198 powder start out at 70 grains With IMR3031, start out at 85-90 grains. When it comes to bullet loading pressure, here's the most vaguely specific answer I can give you. You have to size a bullet to what ever your gun shoots most accurate. Some guns like a bullet sized at 1 to 2 hands of loading pressure. Some of the guys shooting the cut rifled barrels are saying their barrels like very loose sized bullets. I started shooting my cut rifled 26" Brux barrel recently and it shoots great with 1 to 2 hands of loading pressure (3 1/2" group @ 500 yards yesterday with the barrel in a lightweight set-up.) With a LRM primer system the faster the powder, the better the ignition ie... with 4198, the LRM primers will get almost the same velocity as the 209s will, But the slower the burn rate for the powder, the slower the LRM will shoot them compared to the 209 primers. With a 209 primer I need 20 grains LESS of 4350 powder, than a LRM gun does to get the same velocity with a 275 grain bullet. Some say that 209 primers add an unneeded amount of pressure to the load. (Then why can my 209 guns shoot 1/2 MOA out to 800 yards?) Well they are wrong when it comes to slower burning powders. 209 primers add pressure that's NEEDED for the slower powders to operate efficiently in smokeless muzzleloaders. Hence your concern with a pressure starved load. So bottom line is... first check to make sure your barrel doesn't have a powder chamber. If it doesn't have a powder chamber, start to experiment with powders and bullet tightness. If your Bad Bull ignition system will ignite 4350 and a 275 grn MH, it will easily and efficiently ignite 4198 or 3031. Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by mtj555 on Nov 24, 2014 11:20:30 GMT -5
mtj555............Glad your back in one piece..........Thanks again for serving! Sorry I cannot help you on this one as I do not have a Bad Bull and do not shoot those large amounts of slow powders. Richard Richard, Thanks, it is great to be back. I should have lots of time to do shooting from this point on. It looks like I am going to be on assignment to Kent University in Ohio to be a Senior Military Instructor there. Mike
|
|
|
Post by mtj555 on Nov 24, 2014 11:41:08 GMT -5
Jeff,
Thanks for the reply. As far as the powder chamber goes, I do not believe it has one. I have looked from the breach end and I can see through the barrel and I can't discern a powder chamber. I dont recall that being part of his SML design. Additonally, I have pushed the bullets I sized all the one down the barrel until they popped out the end of the barrel into the breach when I have been messing with the sizing die.
I will give you a call and talk about the conversion to your system. I didn't pay full price for my bad bull. He gave me a pretty good deal being military. I would do some things differently if I would have known what I do know. I have considered selling my bad bull but it would have be after the hunting season.
Thanks for the reply, hopefully I can make it to one of your shoots next year. I will be moving to Ohio and should have plenty of time to shoot in the next coming years.
Hope you killed a big one. I am heading to TN to hunt as soon as I sign out on leave.
Mike
|
|
|
Post by hankinsrfls on Nov 24, 2014 12:20:22 GMT -5
It will cost you very little to convert your BB compaired to starting over.. Call anytime. Jeff
|
|
|
Post by cowhunter on Nov 24, 2014 13:09:29 GMT -5
I have a few questions that may serve to help us help you and to satisfy my curiosity. What ignition system do you have -- rifle primer or shotgun primer! Have you measured your speed when the bullets load easily? Does the accuracy change when they load easily? Have you ever had misfires or "poof" shots when the bullet loaded easily? Switching to the "Hankins" system would be a sure fix, but you could experiment with duplex loads and new powders now that you have the adjustable die. Does anyone have the pressure for his system using 140 grains of 4350 and a 275 gr bullet?
|
|
|
Post by mtj555 on Nov 25, 2014 9:33:19 GMT -5
Cowhunter, priming system is bad bull 2 stage mag primer using LRM primers. Only shot it through a chrono a couple of times and the speed was 3115 with a 275BE. I have had no misfires and it's been a .5MOA gun out to 300 meters. 3.5 inch group at 400 yards.
|
|