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Post by rangeball on Oct 20, 2014 22:19:02 GMT -5
Do these work as well as having you barrel threaded for one? Lots of places offering them. Are they a viable option? If not why not?
Does anyone make a quick release version?
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 3:47:07 GMT -5
they might work to some extent BUT I wouldn't use one. a brake needs to be installed perfectly square to a barrels centerline and then drilled dead center so the bullet will exit perfectly in the center of the brake. a clamp on version will likely cause accuracy issues because of poor alignment...
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Post by edge on Oct 21, 2014 6:20:04 GMT -5
IMO, if it were offered for your rifle then alignment should be OK.
What I mean is that the part that connects to your barrel is machined with the same taper.
A taper is a very consistent means of aligning mating parts, generally better than just threads!
Threads normally need a shoulder or taper to bring things into perfect alignment, and by that the alignment functional portion is very short.
A matching taper, if done properly contacts over a much longer length and should be more accurate in aligning mating parts.
Think of it as sights on a barrel, a 2" revolver sights vs a rifle with sights 20 inches apart.
edge.
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Post by bestill on Oct 21, 2014 8:35:24 GMT -5
Edge, seems to me that a break should be perfectly aligned with bore not the outside of barrel. I know that many barrels are not bored perfectly centered to o.d. wouldn't that effect poi ?
Imo ive seen one break installed by hankins properly and it was threaded on barrel that was in lathe indicated in off the bore then final i.d. and o.d. of break was machined and break crown. And gun poi is identical with or without break.
Guess to me it would depend if want deer accuracy or precision accuracy.
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Post by edge on Oct 21, 2014 8:54:50 GMT -5
Clearly if you have a non precision barrel then that would be a problem, and I would not have confidence in the threads and crown being in alignment either  edge. |
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Post by bestill on Oct 21, 2014 9:01:40 GMT -5
Very true are mcgowen ,pacnor, bergara and Douglas considered precision ?
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Post by rangeball on Oct 21, 2014 9:03:45 GMT -5
The sites I looked at they have you take measurements at two spots to identify taper and width and cut to your barrel.
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Post by airborneike on Oct 21, 2014 12:10:36 GMT -5
Rangeball, Good move with double posts twice the info I checked some of the websites that offer clamp on brakes and they make their product sound pretty good. I have never used one so I have no first hand knowledge. What I do know is there is much, MUCH market hype involving muzzle brakes that is cleverly designed to separate you from your money. The fact is there is not much difference between all the brakes in recoil reduction and noise levels generated...they are all loud. Cosmetics is probably the most decisive factor for most. I have installed a lot of muzzle brakes over the years and many different kinds and what I have found is that Harrells Precision offers a good brake for a reasonable price....and that is what I recomend to customers who aren't familiar with brakes.  Harrels tactical brake they sell for $45.00  Harrels radial brake they sell for $30.00 Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Harrells, just a very satisfied customer. Smiths will charge around $50.00 to install a radial brake and around $75.00 for installation of a brake that has to be "clocked". The careful installation with regard to the bore concentricy cannot be overstated if the brake is not going to degrade accuracy. We use muzzle brakes in the bench rest world a lot, not so much because the recoil is excessive, but to keep the rifle from being up-set on the bags. It would be interesting to try one of the clamp on brakes to see if it would work on muzzle loaders but it would be a "pricey" experiment. Best, Mike |
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Post by rangeball on Oct 21, 2014 12:23:14 GMT -5
Mike, re the double post, I really have no idea how that happened. I posted from my phone, so who knows One difference I noted between the brakes you posted pics of and the clamp ons, the clamp ons claim to have ports on top to prevent muzzle rise, but no holes on the underside to blow dirt back up, etc. The radial break you pictured seems to have ports all the way around where the tactical doesn't have holes on top or bottom. You mentioned not much difference in recoil reduction in brake design, does this apply to muzzle rise reduction as well? Somehow I was under the impression that a brake and installation would be much more expensive, and that a clamp on would offer a cheaper alternative. Apparently that's not so and good to know, thanks. |
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Post by airborneike on Oct 21, 2014 13:28:51 GMT -5
Rangeball,
In my experience, top ports are much more effective when using fully automatic weapons. The effect on single shot guns is small.
The tactical brake pictured has the ports angled upward a bit (not apparent in the pictures)
Obviously, the radial brake could wreak havoc with dirt and such if shooting prone.
One other thing to consider with clamp on brakes would be the possibility of actually squeezing the bore a tiny bit. Not a bad thing for center fire rifles because a small amount of "choke" can be beneficial but could be a problem for muzzle loaders.
Commercial gunsmiths are like any other business, they will charge as much as the market will allow and to justify those charges will hype their products, i.e bigger badder best etc.
Someone needs to try the clamp-ons and give us a report...you never know...an open mind is always good when it comes to product innovation.
Mike
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Post by hankinsrfls on Oct 21, 2014 19:44:06 GMT -5
I would say no one should try a clamp on brake..... IMO they are total junk and a gimmick to get your money.. I would bet the exit hole is bigger than it should be to allow for miss-alignment and therefor making it less effective and knocking off your accuracy some.
HOWEVER................ It would be possible to make a slip fit brake (clamp on) if machined at the time of installation.. This means the brake must be made first with a precision reamed pocket and then the barrel would have to be turned down to match the brake. You have ZERO tolerance for a proper fit. It would cost more to do it this way than to thread it and have a positive lock up when installed.
I have seen people install brakes using an old lathe with a three jaw chuck and not do any indicating of the barrel. Then they wonder why one side of the brake is off center and the rifle don't shoot as good as it did before the install... Hmmm,,,, I wonder?
The most effective brake design is the Radial port. Holes all the way around the brake,, This allows the gas to evenly grab the multiple shoulders of the brake and pull the rifle forward and displace the gasses evenly out around the barrel. Now if you shoot prone in the dirt then you will not want to go with a radial brake, but prone in the woods or a green grass field once in awhile and you will be fine and dandy using the radial. I prefer a radial brake 10 to 1 over the tactical (Fish Gill) style. I only use the tactical brakes when it is aesthetically pleasing to the eye and I am trying to maintain that (so called) tactical/military look.
Brakes with linear drilled holes are a total waste of time and money. The purpose of a brake is to direct the gasses out the side, not the front.. Any gasses that escape from the front linear drilled holes is gas that was felt in recoil,, These style brakes are usually advertised as a (quiet brake),,, well if its quiet it ain't working....
For those of you who can install your own brake the best deal out there is a Harrels Brake. Like Airborneike said they sell for $30.00 and $45.00 but they are not a finished brake when you get it. The hole thru is only .200 so you can open it up to what ever size you need it to be, the outside diameter is mill finish so you must turn the outside as well to create a smooth surface. What you get with a Harrels brake is precision machined threads perfectly aligned with the exit hole and the cross drilled holes aligned center of the exit hole. The rest is up to the machinist that installs it.
To me a pre-fit brake is a waist of money, spend good money once, have it done correctly once, and be happy forever.... Buy American!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff.
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Post by Richard on Oct 21, 2014 19:47:20 GMT -5
Good post Mike..........I also have been using and installing Harrell's brakes for years now. When dealing with barrels that the bore is not concentric to the outside what I do is initially indicate to the bore, turn the tennon and thread. Then, using a boring bar open the hole the diameter I want. If the brake is going to be one that is machined flush with the barrel, I then re-indicate to the outside of the barrel and turn the brake to match the barrel.
BTW, I just cut a thread on an AR barrel for a gentleman and charged him $45.00............He said: "Man, are you sure you are charging enough?"
Richard
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