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Post by encore50a on Sept 26, 2014 14:30:58 GMT -5
Someone help me with what I'm missing here please................
I did some shooting this morning, as there was just about zero wind. I started early as I knew the day would warm up..... and it did.
I started shooting at 200 yards and needed a little height adjustment from the other day's 100yd shooting, so I made that adjustment to the turret. Then I stapled up a target at 300 yards, which I haven't shot at in quite some time. Basically because Bestill asked in another post. 
I dialed the turret to 300yds and sent 4 rounds of the Whitetail Medicine bullets that Ultimate sells. Then without making the horizontal adjustment, I sent 3 rounds of the SST that I received from Luke awhile back. Both .452" bullets were sent using the H5045 LB sabots. The target photo below shows what happened.
I'm wondering if one bullet may be the bonded bullet and the other not? I'm also wondering what made the difference if they are identical??? What the heck happened here? ??
There was a guy that shoots competition CF that came and after I pulled the target, we talked about it. Now this guy can shoot! He shoots some 6mm case, expanded to shoot a .30 bullet and puts bullets at 100 yards INSIDE the ring that's the size of a pencil eraser!!!!! This guy can shoot that rifle!!! He mentioned that he thought that if there wasn't a difference in the bullets, I may be lifting my cheek off the stock. I was on my way to go home, he wanted to send a few rounds and had to go also, so we didn't get to much time, or time for him to watch me shoot.
From those looking at this target, any idea or clue, what or why??
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Post by Dave W on Sept 26, 2014 14:43:29 GMT -5
At that distance, with the BC of those bullets, a very subtle wind shift could be the culprit. JMO
Outstanding shooting!
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Post by encore50a on Sept 26, 2014 14:51:23 GMT -5
At that distance, with the BC of those bullets, a very subtle wind shift could be the culprit. JMO Outstanding shooting! That's the first target. The second target I fired just 3 rounds total, 2 Whitetail and they hit where those 4 did. Then another SST and it hit like the SST's shown.
It was as calm out as calm could possibly be this morning. I didn't have to worry about letting the barrel cool, I had to wait that long for the smoke to clear.
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Post by Dave W on Sept 26, 2014 15:09:27 GMT -5
On a couple of occasions I have read people claiming different POI's between the 300gr regular TC Shockwaves and the SST.
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Post by hunter on Sept 26, 2014 16:15:02 GMT -5
Did the shockwaves have a yellow tip or blue tip?
The blue tip is supposed to be the bonded version.
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Post by mrbuck on Sept 26, 2014 17:40:22 GMT -5
I have shot the T/C 250gr. Bonded Shock Wave with fine accuracy from a NULA with both IMR 4759 and N110 .The loads were mild and if I recall the twist is much slower than the Savage rate of twist .
The points if impact are different for 250gr. Ballistic Extremes , XTPs , Bonded Shock Waves and SSTs using the same powder wights .
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Post by encore50a on Sept 26, 2014 17:40:53 GMT -5
Did the shockwaves have a yellow tip or blue tip? The blue tip is supposed to be the bonded version. They're the Hornady SST bullets. The white tipped bullets shoot the tightest group, where the red tipped wondered. I just received the SST red tips from Luke a couple weeks ago. I also just measured five of each bullet, and all 10 came out to .452" I just took a Kodak of them side by side.
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Post by mrbuck on Sept 26, 2014 17:48:44 GMT -5
Never saw white tipped Hornady or T/C bullets . Could they " blems" ? I have seen a lot of variation
in the bases of the bullets . Some were very square some were more beveled
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Post by mrbuck on Sept 26, 2014 17:57:29 GMT -5
Never saw white tipped Hornady or T/C bullets . Could they be " blems" ? I have seen a lot of variation
in the bases of the bullets . Some were very square some were more beveled .
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Post by encore50a on Sept 26, 2014 18:42:26 GMT -5
The white tipped bullets, are the bullets Ultimate Firearms has made.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2014 22:17:40 GMT -5
Are the jackets same thickness....They look the same but don't shoot the same for sure....
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Post by encore50a on Sept 27, 2014 4:56:43 GMT -5
Are the jackets same thickness....They look the same but don't shoot the same for sure.... The million dollar question.... I have no clue why the significant difference and was hoping someone may know a heck of a lot more than I do. I actually shot the second target in reverse order and ended up with the same results.
Like everyone else, I make the attempt to save a little money when and where I can. Ordering a couple boxes of bulk SST bullets from Luke surely saved a few bucks. Honestly I thought (probably the first problem) that I'd be good to go. If I hadn't shot the second target in reverse order, then I may have considered it more on my part or barrel heat. The bullets all weigh the same and are all .452".
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Sept 27, 2014 5:47:22 GMT -5
There must be a very slight difference between the two bullets that makes for this difference at 300 yards. What do they look like at 100 yards? I do not mix bullet lots for this reason as lot to lot variation does exist. I always resight in when I switch to another lot to be certain the POI is the same.
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Post by encore50a on Sept 27, 2014 6:15:33 GMT -5
There must be a very slight difference between the two bullets that makes for this difference at 300 yards. What do they look like at 100 yards? I do not mix bullet lots for this reason as lot to lot variation does exist. I always resight in when I switch to another lot to be certain the POI is the same. I don't shoot much at 100yds any more and yesterday's 300yd session was the first time I'd shot the new SST bullets. I may call Hornady next week..... |
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Post by bestill on Sept 27, 2014 8:01:40 GMT -5
Maybe someone with white tip bullet could cut one in half and melt lead out and measure jacket thickness?
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Post by encore50a on Sept 27, 2014 8:18:52 GMT -5
Maybe someone with white tip bullet could cut one in half and melt lead out and measure jacket thickness? I'd be more than happy to send someone one of each to try. Just makes me scratch my head..........
UPDATE: I'll be sending out 10 of each on Monday 
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Post by encore50a on Sept 29, 2014 12:45:53 GMT -5
UPDATE:
After a phone call, the answer to my questions have pretty much been answered.
The Whitetail Medicine bullet IS NOT a common SST bullet. The WM bullet is made by Hornady and by contract, to strict specifications by UF. It is NOT the same bullet. |
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Post by bestill on Sept 29, 2014 20:16:56 GMT -5
Does anybody know jacket thickness of whitetail medicine bullet or could cut one in half and measure jacket thickness
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Post by encore50a on Sept 30, 2014 7:31:59 GMT -5
Does anybody know jacket thickness of whitetail medicine bullet or could cut one in half and measure jacket thickness I just sent some of each out yesterday to a shooters that will be checking. |
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Post by pooldoc on Oct 22, 2014 6:22:09 GMT -5
Hornady factory rep told me that the red tipped SST sold by Hornady with red EZ load sabot and the TC shock waves with the yellow tip and yellow EZ load sabots are identical bullets and sabots. Both sabots are made by MMP who also makes them in black for sale to the public. The bonded shockwaves sold by TC, with a blue tip and blue sabot, are also made by Hornady with a thicker copper cup etc and are designed to provide deeper penatration on larger game such as elk, moose etc. I bought a box last week at Cabelas and the sabot that came with it, also made by MMP, is a different design. These differences could easily affect POI.
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Post by bestill on Oct 22, 2014 6:30:09 GMT -5
Can't someone cut bullets in half and measure jacket thickness?
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Post by encore50a on Oct 22, 2014 6:52:49 GMT -5
Sorry about not providing an update, but here goes............ These are some of the photos and comments made by those who cut and did the testing. Short of some slight differences, one person feels they're the same bullet with a different color tip, just maybe different runs.
HOWEVER......... the two bullet shot totally different, as can be seen on the target. The reverse order of shooting of bullets, yielded the identical results.
we talked about using Rb scale not sure if they used Brinell or not, I will ask when I see them. It looks like Re or Rf would work, but, like they said, we don't usually test anything that soft. I just went through jacket thickness and they are about identical, pretty much 0.030" along the main wall. The one thing that looked different was the ring inside, a little sharper on the WM bullet. Bases are@ 0.050" and lower wall was 0.040".
The only thing I can say is a bit softer lead, and the guys who measured it said it was noticeable, even without the correct scale.
More pics, WM on the left. And top...
got the jackets tested, the WM came in at 87 Rb and the SST came in at 86 Rb. I also asked more about the scale they used on the lead and he went off about a bearing (like Rockwell b scale, but said something about a different size) and said it was in Newton Meters
There is a conclusion though! The reading they were getting was a negative on every scale they used, the most accurate one showed the WM as a -180 and the SST as a -165 consistently. The WM are softer which may make them obturate easier in the sabot allowing better bullet to sabot to bore fit. |
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