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Post by edge on Sept 21, 2014 15:21:07 GMT -5
My point here and on previous posts is that alignment is very important and just because this is ML it should not be overlooked. I do not think that a competent gunsmith would make a perfect rifle/action and mate it to a stock that had screws out of square to the barrel and the recoil lug squares up the barrel to the action! edge.
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Post by jims on Sept 21, 2014 19:18:10 GMT -5
Can the goat only be turned loose regarding best bullets or recoil lugs also. When I first read this I thought it would bring out different perspectives and I do actually enjoy reading the different ideas expressed. I learn a great deal from these various views.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Sept 21, 2014 19:54:47 GMT -5
Like I said, we all have a different view. The precision ground recoil lug is one of those options that won't make a difference in your final outcome.. If you want one, get it, it's only $30.00, if you don't want one don't sweat it... Your rifle will shoot just as good.. Jeff.
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 21, 2014 20:16:41 GMT -5
Like I said, we all have a different view. The precision ground recoil lug is one of those options that won't make a difference in your final outcome.. If you want one, get it, it's only $30.00, if you don't want one don't sweat it... Your rifle will shoot just as good.. Jeff. I would say going with the precision ground lug certainly won't hurt you, but I'm inclined to agree with Jeff that it more than likely won't make a difference.
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 21, 2014 21:45:28 GMT -5
I know Richard and Luke have put new barrel lugs on my 700ml builds. What is the purpose of the aftmarket lug? Phil, You got an aftermarket lug on your 700ML builds because the factory 700ML lug has a huge notch in the middle for the ramrod.
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Post by edge on Sept 22, 2014 7:39:34 GMT -5
Of course it does not matter... if you don't mind that your rifle shoots diagonally to the axis of your stock! Actually they are right for short distance shooting or you want to win shooting honors I am sure that Jeff did not have a ground recoil lug on his rifle that took the top place at the shoot, and he took zero time to ensure the rifle sat properly in the stock...as he said it could have been sideways and it would have shot just as well. Perhaps at the Spring shoot someone will bring in a rifle designed this way to prove once and for all whether the stock should be in alignment with the barrel or not! edge.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Sept 22, 2014 9:18:32 GMT -5
We started talking about weather a precision recoil lug as necessary or not and now we are on to barrel and stock alignment. If you know whay you are doing and know how to bed a rifle.. you will know that you work with two points of the barreled action. The very end of the receiver and the last inch or so of the barrel that is in the stock. You align these two points to be as close as possible to center. Before you add your epoxy to the stock everything between these two points should float in the stock. Not one point of contact from the action or the barrel should touch the stock. The barrel should be running parallel to the stock. The action and the pillars should be floating at this point. Once all glued in then you will have a stress free bedding job.
Jeff's rifle does have a Holland lug, only because I pin it to the action so that I can remove the barrel and relocate the lug easily. However the action was not blueprinted or squared up in any way.
Measure the thickness of a factory Remington lug with a micrometer and see what the variances are. I promise you a thou, or so will not make a difference in the final outcome.. I know of a lot of bench rest shooters that use factory Remington actions and recoil lugs and shoot very competitive... However, when building a center fire rifle I recommend blue printing the action and using a precision lug.. Everything helps in the center fire rifle when you have a chamber to deal with... But what do I know... I have only built hundreds of them... LOL...
Jeff.
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Post by edge on Sept 22, 2014 9:31:23 GMT -5
We started talking about weather a precision recoil lug as necessary or not and now we are on to barrel and stock alignment. SNIP SNIP... But what do I know... I have only built hundreds of them... LOL... Jeff. SNIP. The action could in theory screw on at a 90 degree angle and the rifle would shoot just a accurately. SNIP.. Jeff. Hmmm..... , just sayin edge.
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Post by markb317 on Sept 22, 2014 15:21:30 GMT -5
This thread was about shouldered barrels and them being available to buy prefit for Savages... NOT ABOUT RECOIL LUGS
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Post by hankinsrfls on Sept 22, 2014 15:41:52 GMT -5
This thread was about shouldered barrels and them being available to buy prefit for Savages... NOT ABOUT RECOIL LUGS I know.... Look what you started.. LOL... Just kidding... Jeff.
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Post by edge on Sept 22, 2014 18:27:18 GMT -5
This thread was about shouldered barrels and them being available to buy prefit for Savages... NOT ABOUT RECOIL LUGS ARE YOU USING A RECOIL LUG? IF SO THEN IT MATTERS! edge.
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Post by edge on Sept 22, 2014 18:37:23 GMT -5
You know what, I will drop it when a competent gunsmith ( someone that makes a living at this ) goes on record saying that the barrel/action does NOT need to be in-line with the stock! Yes, the barrel IS in effect the action with a ML, but the action decides where the barrel sits in the stock! If some gunsmith glues the barreled action then I would agree that the recoil lug is not too important. To say that the barrel can be 90 degrees to the action which is what marries the rifle to the stock goes against...fill in the blank!
So here it is, go on record that the barrel relationship to the stock is immaterial...
edge.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 19:52:23 GMT -5
The barrel should be running parallel to the stock. The action and the pillars should be floating at this point. Once all glued in then you will have a stress free bedding job. Jeff. There.....
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Post by edge on Sept 22, 2014 20:07:59 GMT -5
SNIP. The action could in theory screw on at a 90 degree angle and the rifle would shoot just a accurately. SNIP.. Jeff. WHERE?
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Post by hankinsrfls on Sept 22, 2014 20:36:34 GMT -5
I was just stating that the recoil lug is not the deciding factor for an accurate rifle.
Look at some of the percussion ML's. There ignition system is 90 degree to the barrel. And some of them are as accurate as any center fire rifle. Just a big ole chunk of steel with a hole in it slapped into a full length piece of wood,,, and will still shoot lights out...
I measured a factory take off Remington lug and a Holland Precision lug at 4 places around the inside Diameter that will be touching the shoulder of the barrel and action, here are my findings.
Remington Lug: at 12:00 measures, .18905 at 3:00 measures, .18885 at 6:00 measures, .18895 and at 9:00 measures, .18905 That is a difference of .0002 Holland Lug: at 12:00 measures, .18755 at 3:00 measures, .18745 at 6:00 measures, .18770 and at 9:00 measures, .18760 That is a difference of .0001
Will a .0001 make a difference? I really doubt it but for $30.00 you can't go wrong. Would it stop me from building if I didn't have the Holland lug. Not me. I would build it on a Factory lug if I needed too.. What you have to know is the thickness of the lug if you are ordering a pre threaded barrel. If your barrel is cut for a .250 lug then a .187 lug would not work and vise/versa...
We all got schooled on recoil lugs today.. Sorry this thread strayed so farm from its original purpose but that is how we learn so much from each other... One thing starts another thing and before we are done we have almost built a complete rifle... All is good... Jeff..
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 22, 2014 21:19:02 GMT -5
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Post by edge on Sept 23, 2014 5:59:40 GMT -5
lwh723, OK, how many of these do you see on 1k rifles?
In warfare you can spray and pray...is that your goal with a single shot rifle? Let me see, 30 seconds to reload, hmmm not a lot of spraying in my book!
edge.
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Post by edge on Sept 23, 2014 6:04:32 GMT -5
I was just stating that the recoil lug is not the deciding factor for an accurate rifle. SNIP. Here we absolutely agree. IMO, a ground lug will fit into your bedding and not induce its own problems the way a stamped lug MIGHT! A stamped lug can only fit correctly one way and you can NEVER reproduce it once you remove the barrel...except by some miracle or accident! Unless it goes back exactly the same way it will torque the action to SOME extent. edge.
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