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Post by markb317 on Sept 18, 2014 23:02:36 GMT -5
I was wondering why no one has came up with a barrel to sell for the Savage CF that has a shoulder like a Remington Ml that will head space the same way. My Savage CF rifle bolts are all very close on lenght so I can't see where it would be any different than head spacing a Remington 700ML. I think it would be good to have that extra .20 thicker barrel without having a nut,plus they look cooler without it.
Maybe if there is enough interest then Luke could have some built to sell if he thought they would sell.
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 18, 2014 23:09:19 GMT -5
Actually, just did one for a Dave D CF plug.
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Post by Jon on Sept 19, 2014 0:57:42 GMT -5
I am getting ready to start a build using a ml 1 action and I will not be using a barrel nut. I want the extra safety margin of more metal around the chamber. Of coarse I also want the extra safety of having a lugged action.
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Post by dave d. on Sept 19, 2014 7:01:23 GMT -5
Yes we went over all the specs with Casey and my buddy ken installed the first one on his action this week. Should be up and going shortly. Slam dunk for savage cf sabot less.
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Post by kbrezlin on Sept 19, 2014 12:45:06 GMT -5
I would post a picture of the barrel DaveD and Luke are talking about but apparently electronics have whipped me again and I can't get a picture to attach. If you still have the Pic Dave feel free to upload it if you want.
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Post by dave d. on Sept 19, 2014 21:16:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 21:23:38 GMT -5
Great idea guys!
Do you plan on "mass producing" the shouldered Savage SML barrels for sale to the general public?
Will the shouldered barrels fit a Savage Target action?
Thanks
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Post by kbrezlin on Sept 20, 2014 5:42:46 GMT -5
The action was a 110, small shank. I don't see why it would not work on a target action. Hardest part so far was getting the old barrel off. Thanks to some help from DaveD and Luke my first build is half way done.
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Post by dave d. on Sept 20, 2014 7:37:49 GMT -5
Josh yes they are a part of the dd line. If the target action has similar dimensions from face of action to face of bolt it's a slam dunk.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Sept 20, 2014 7:43:08 GMT -5
I don't know why this hasn't already been done. It's the only way I would do it with a Savage. Good job guys. Now I can use a Savage T/A also. Guess I may be building another gun.
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Post by edge on Sept 20, 2014 7:51:02 GMT -5
Did you make it for a drop-in using the Savage recoil lug, when I did mine I machined mine for a 1/4 inch lug. Just curious what most folks do...probably stick to the 3/16 lug would be my guess  edge. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 7:53:32 GMT -5
My brux .458 is going to be setup that way by Jeff Hankins and his ignition on a ML-1 action....nutless...
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Post by hankinsrfls on Sept 20, 2014 8:14:30 GMT -5
I have built several SPML's and numerous center fire rifles using savage actions and never use the barrel nut..
This is not a hard thing to do.. What will become the problem is head spacing as each action will measure slightly different. That's the reason Savage uses the nut.. To make assembly easy at the factory and not need to hold so tight of tolerances during the machining of their parts..
I was going to offer pre-threaded barrels for Remington 700 so the DIYer could screw it together,, but I started keeping a record of measurements from each action I built on and I have a total spread of .009 in headspace measurements. That's to much to make a pre-threaded barrel and expect it to work on every action.
In my opinion., if you're building a rifle, spending lots of money on it and parts,, send it out to a qualified rifle builder and have the barrel fit to your action. Cost of cash at the end of the build would be about the same and the headache of getting it head spaced correctly will be gone.. Jeff.
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Post by kbrezlin on Sept 20, 2014 8:27:56 GMT -5
Edge, It was headspaced for a sharpshooter .240 recoil lug. If it's apart why not upgrade the lug is what I thought.
The magazine came off the bottom and was replaced by a follower. The trigger was swapped out to an accutriger, bolt handle and fire pin spring replaced. Kevin Rayhill did all the action work for me. One of the machinists at work measured the action face to lug face depth, and the action face to bolt face depth to get the head spacing right.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 9:46:42 GMT -5
Josh yes they are a part of the dd line. If the target action has similar dimensions from face of action to face of bolt it's a slam dunk. Dave, are you guys are using the same premise that the 700 ML pre-threaded Pacnor and Mcgowen barrels are built on? Knowing that there are small variances from one Savage action to the next, the barrels will have a "generic" fit, so they can be threaded onto and used on multiple actions? Like the 700 ML .458 Pacnor barrels can be now. I can remove the barrel from one action to the next if I want, and the only variance will be the depth in how the primer seats in the plug due to the small variance in the actions? Which barrel manufacturers will be making the pre-threaded shouldered Savage DD barrels? Pacnor, McGowen, Brux? Or are they going to be made by an individual gunsmith? Thanks |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 10:07:03 GMT -5
Jeff the headspace issue was handled by setting the savage breech plug too deep into the action and then we modify each plug to proper headspace. Your system most likely will not work that way and deserves a one off custom fit for each action.
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Post by Richard on Sept 20, 2014 11:08:14 GMT -5
Edge.............Yeah, I would definitely up grade to an aftermarket parallel ground recoil lug rather than using the "~~~~Savage lug!" Richard "Some things will never die!" |
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Post by edge on Sept 20, 2014 16:19:57 GMT -5
Oh Richard, I just asked what the barrel was designed for. Clearly the recoil lug dimensions matter on a shouldered barrel and anyone contemplating using this new design should know if they also need a new recoil lug...n'est-ce pas?
edge.
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Post by Jon on Sept 20, 2014 16:33:00 GMT -5
Sml. If you are using a ml 1 action is Jeff making the nodules to fit the ml 1 bolt which is .223?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 20:54:14 GMT -5
Sml. If you are using a ml 1 action is Jeff making the nodules to fit the ml 1 bolt which is .223? No I'm going with the ptg .308 bolthead around 55.00 unless someone knows of a cheaper source....I'm changing heads to allow for more metal to encase primer as Jeff advised ,which made perfect sense and the savage bolthead is modular/convertible so why not..... |
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Post by dave d. on Sept 20, 2014 21:11:48 GMT -5
Josh headspacing will be of your cut down cases so the variances in actions will not matter. Swap barrel cut new cases simple no special modules needed. Enjoy
Edge Casey will cut the shoulder for any size lug you want. These are drop ins like all dd barrels are. DIY is the only way I fly lol
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Post by cowhunter on Sept 20, 2014 22:41:36 GMT -5
I know Richard and Luke have put new barrel lugs on my 700ml builds. What is the purpose of the aftmarket lug?
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Post by jims on Sept 21, 2014 7:04:52 GMT -5
I cannot say for sure on Rems but the Savages use new recoil lugs that are stiffer, straighter and in theory promote better accuracy than the factory one. Perhaps the same on the Rem?
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Post by hankinsrfls on Sept 21, 2014 7:43:39 GMT -5
When building a precision center fire rifle on a blue printed action is is best to use a precision ground recoil lug. This insures that the barrel will mate up to the action completely square provided everything else is square. This is necessary for optimal accuracy because it helps keep everything in line with the bolt bore raceway.
When building a ML it is not necessary to use a blue printed action or precision ground lug because there is no chamber. The action could in theory screw on at a 90 degree angle and the rifle would shoot just a accurately. (The only problem you would have is when looking through your scope you would be looking at the sky.).
When I build a ML for someone I recommend that they do not waist their money on blue printing the action and spend that $250.00 on some thing else..
Now the precision ground recoil lug cost about $30.00 so if its something you want to add to your build then go ahead, it won't brake the bank,, but anything over .187 thick is just a waist of material. Yes they look cool on some rifles and I have used lugs a thick as .375 but there is absolutely no advantage or accuracy gain by going with a thicker lug.. Jeff.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 9:47:46 GMT -5
Darn it Jeff you just blew my theory out of the water.... I was sure you were truing your actions. Not even single point truing then?
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Post by edge on Sept 21, 2014 10:10:52 GMT -5
Yikes, back to the recoil lug disagreement I'll give my opinion since the subject is open. Let's take a barrel ON A ML that is OFF AXIS to the stock what happens? IMO, the bullet and gasses put torque on the rifle off the axis of line of sight. How much does this matter, I don't know. You could take the most perfect benchrest rifle and intentionally mount it off axis to the stock and the rifle rest and I very seriously doubt it would shoot the same size groups. It would NOT TRACK straight back in the rest...I think that is an important attribute of a target rifle but I may be wrong...but I doubt it . I have heard of bench shooters putting special material on the bottoms of the stocks so that they do not stick in any way as they recoil! Clearly someone going to that effort must feel the the rifle recoiling exactly to the rear is important. edge. |
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Post by hankinsrfls on Sept 21, 2014 10:56:52 GMT -5
Darn it Jeff you just blew my theory out of the water.... I was sure you were truing your actions. Not even single point truing then? No Myers.. I do not blue print my ML actions. It would be a waste of time and the customers money.. .. However,, the only way to truely blue print one is totally single point recutting the surfaces.,, it you use those long mandrel taps that are available all you do is recut the surfaces, (threads) over size, but did not do any correction in the action.. IMO.. Jeff. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 11:05:39 GMT -5
I totally agree with you on the taps, they are a scam and don't correct any misalignment. They just make it look like you did a nice job. By single point I meant truing the face of the receiver to the bolt raceway without truing the threads. Just to get perfect alignment to the lug and barrel. Whatever you are doing it is working!
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Post by hankinsrfls on Sept 21, 2014 11:16:45 GMT -5
Yikes, back to the recoil lug disagreement I'll give my opinion since the subject is open. Let's take a barrel ON A ML that is OFF AXIS to the stock what happens? IMO, the bullet and gasses put torque on the rifle off the axis of line of sight. How much does this matter, I don't know. You could take the most perfect benchrest rifle and intentionally mount it off axis to the stock and the rifle rest and I very seriously doubt it would shoot the same size groups. It would NOT TRACK straight back in the rest...I think that is an important attribute of a target rifle but I may be wrong...but I doubt it . I have heard of bench shooters putting special material on the bottoms of the stocks so that they do not stick in any way as they recoil! Clearly someone going to that effort must feel the the rifle recoiling exactly to the rear is important. edge. Edge.... There's so many ways to think about this... IMO... If the barrel is off axis of the stock that is a result in a bad bedding job... not the recoil lug being out of flatness by a .001 or so. But a .000 precision lug would eliminate all possibilities of that correct... Only if the finished barreled action is bedded correctly... The point I was trying to make is there is no chamber on an ML for something to not line up correctly, If you push your bullets down straight then they will come out straight. Unlike a rifle with a sloppy chamber where the cartridge rattles around in side until you pull the trigger. Then it fills the voids by expanding brass and the bullet is located in a different spot every time you fire it, causing pore accuracy. These ML's are so accurate because you have eliminated the variables of the chamber. A precision recoil lug vrs a factory lug will not show you any difference in accuracy,,, IMO...... I use factory Remington lugs on my ML's unless the customer request me to use a precision lug and they all still shoot just as good... Now I will say that years back Remington stamped out their lugs and Savage may have done it also... In that case I would replace the stamped lug with a new one... There's always an exception to every rule... Jeff. |
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Post by hankinsrfls on Sept 21, 2014 11:18:53 GMT -5
I totally agree with you on the taps, they are a scam and don't correct any misalignment. They just make it look like you did a nice job. By single point I meant truing the face of the receiver to the bolt raceway without truing the threads. Just to get perfect alignment to the lug and barrel. Whatever you are doing it is working! I do not do any truing to the action if I am building a ML.. I blue print every action that I use to build a center fire. Jeff |
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