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Post by deermangler on Sept 14, 2014 21:41:07 GMT -5
Im sure this is a rookie issue. In a nut shell... My buddy has a cva 45-70 conversion and he has been getting a lot of misfires. The primer fires everytime but the charge does not ignite everytime. Sometimes the bullet spits out the end of the barrel. Sometimes the bullet fires out of the barrel but not all the powder burns.
List of gear used:
Cva 45-70 conversion
200sst/blue harvester sabot
58gr h4198
Savage plug
Remington kleenbore primers
Used breech plug lube on threads. Very small amount
Tried winchester shotshell 209 primers but the action won't close shut. Primer seemed too long.
Also have been cleaning the barrel with just a dry brush and dry patch.
Also my buddy says he seats the charge and bullet firmly. How tight should it be? Put your body into it?
Planing on tackling this issue tomorrow so any advice to fix this problem would be great. Like I said we are new to this and I'm sure it's a rookie mistake. I hope.
Thank you for any help
Matt
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 14, 2014 21:44:13 GMT -5
I think those kleenbore primers are reduced power. You definitely want to use either the Winchesters or CCI 209M or Fed209A.
Also, don't clean between shots.
And since the bullet is getting ejected out of the barrel, I'm guessing he's got a looser bore. Knurling may be in order for best accuracy.
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Post by dannoboone on Sept 14, 2014 22:34:37 GMT -5
The problem is definitely the kleenbore primers, and
they ARE reduced power specifically for black
powder/substitute. As you have experienced, they
are totally unreliable for smokeless.
If possible, try other primers than the Win's. It
SEEMS like CCIM's are a tad shorter, but I'm not
certain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 23:23:47 GMT -5
There might be some grease fouling the powder also...totally avoidable using Teflon tape...sounds like you are going to have to shorten the plug/primer pocket some to accept a longer/hotter primer also imo.....
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Post by cowhunter on Sept 14, 2014 23:27:50 GMT -5
As professor Earnhadt would say, your gun is pressure starved. You can do the following:
1. Not clean your barrel and hopefully get about 40 pounds of loading pressure;
2. As mentioned above, either knurl that bullet or use another bullet that gives you the 40 lbs loading pressure;
3. Use a 300 plus grain sabotless bullet that is full-formed. Both the size of the bullet and full-forming increase pressure;
4. Use a .040 bushing with 14/64ths flame channel, and/or;
5. Use a faster powder like N-110 or sc4759. They don't need nearly as much pressure to ignite. But they build pressure too quickly so you can only safely go up to about 2400fps.
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Post by deermangler on Sept 15, 2014 0:11:54 GMT -5
There might be some grease fouling the powder also...totally avoidable using Teflon tape...sounds like you are going to have to shorten the plug/primer pocket some to accept a longer/hotter primer also imo..... I'm going to try a couple other primers before I do anything buy how does one shorten plug/primer pocket? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 0:17:39 GMT -5
There might be some grease fouling the powder also...totally avoidable using Teflon tape...sounds like you are going to have to shorten the plug/primer pocket some to accept a longer/hotter primer also imo..... I'm going to try a couple other primers before I do anything buy how does one shorten plug/primer pocket? theres a tutorial on how Fishhawk headspaces a plug....Look in the build section here...... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 3:51:23 GMT -5
yes the win 209 is slightly longer than the feds and ccis but toss the remmy primers. you can increase the depth of the primer pocket slightly with the correct size bit cut flat and sharpened but it would be difficult to do without a lathe. Im assuming its a Savage plug? If Slufoot did it it should be right. make sure there is no trash in front of the plug not allowing it to bottom out. If that is not the problem PM me and we will talk..
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Post by cuda on Sept 15, 2014 9:53:07 GMT -5
I would think the Rem Kleenbore primers left some crud in the primer hole. I would try to clean it all out and try the Win 209 again or make it a little deeper so it will fit. Then you can use any primer.
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Post by 10ga on Sept 15, 2014 12:26:00 GMT -5
All good suggestions but before you alter anything like plug etc try: use either the Federal or CCI m primers, kleenbore are notoriously "cool and weak" as 209 go plus 1. Heavy knurl on bullets, 2. don't clean the barrel unless you "blow" a sabot, 3. get the barrel "dirty" before shooting like 3 or 4 primers and a load of 5744 for dirtying up the barrel, 4. if knurling the bullets doesn't get you enough loading pressure try paper patching the bullets inside the sabot. Like said the gun seems pressure starved and if bore loose enough to have a primer "spit" the bullet/sabot out you don't have enough loading pressure to ignite the powder. I don't usually use duplexes but if you have a more easily ignited powder, like 5744 or 4759, try duplexing. Best, 10 ga
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Post by lep999 on Sept 15, 2014 19:32:43 GMT -5
Deermangler I have a CVA 45-70 conversion slufoot did for me and the first 2 shots out of the barrel
did the same as yours 200sst and light blue sabot was not tight enough if you have the tan sabots that
came with the 200sst's try those it did the trick for my barrel
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Post by deermangler on Sept 15, 2014 20:23:04 GMT -5
Thank you all for the replys. As soon as I get a nice day we are going to try out some of these responses starting with getting new primers and pray that helps. Such a simple but complex system. Little more science to this than I thought but I'm learning fast. Lol
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