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Post by rob67 on Aug 30, 2014 20:04:34 GMT -5
I got concerned when a member asked about shooting 78g of imr 4198 in his 45/70 conversion. Some of us know it's not safe,but not everybody. I think it was Jeff that gave him a safe limit of 60g. I think we need to seperate some of the info out here so our new friends remain safe. As a plus it might cut down on the teenage girl crap that has been going on lately. I know about that girl crap all to well. Keep up the good work guys. Rob
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Post by Jon on Aug 30, 2014 22:46:08 GMT -5
rob67. Good post Things are getting where people need to be more explicit about what they are shooting and safe limits. we ran into this when people started shooting 40 and 45 as apposed to the 50's.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 5:01:58 GMT -5
what do we consider a hot rod?
a lot of people consider anything we talk about here hot rodding. IMHO thats where we as members that have been here a while come into play. It is our responsibility to police each other and especially guys that are new to the SML world. yes we need to be specific about caliber, platform etc when we post something but it would be very difficult to draw a line and say from here on ____________ will be considered as a different category and will be posted as
such..
Yes it concerned me that he was considering that load for an encore as well, that's the reason I posted what I did very quickly..
I will agree we do need to more diligent to specify what we are discussing for the sake of those reading....JMO
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Post by bestill on Aug 31, 2014 6:55:04 GMT -5
I definitely agree when it comes to hinge pin guns that needs to always be specified clearly. To many it common sense bolt guns have heavy contour especially in chamber area and no taped holes. Then you take a hinge gun with
.990 shank with4 scope holes taped inline down top of barrel above chamber area.
So yes as responsible board members clarity goes along way to protect us all especially new members to the sport of sml.
But it also responsibility of all who do sml to do research and if not sure about what your doing ask questions before trying it
Fun fact at age 10 me and neighbor boy took a 40 hp shot of nitrous from his dads garage and put on a 8 hp lawn tractor results were pretty cool until rod went thru garage wall.
Thank that qualifies as uninformed voter .. woo hoo
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Aug 31, 2014 7:07:44 GMT -5
When the Savage came out, 1st with modules, and then the gun we know today, there was a flurry of evolution here on this board. The gun was new, the board was new and there were a sea of newbs trying to figure out the most basic things. How to prevent misfires, how to prevent flyers and how to keep plugs and vents from sticking...and what to do if they stuck. This took awhile! And... I was part of this process.
While the stock 50 was being perfected, some of the pioneers and very smart people began tinkering with .45 barrel conversions, duplexing and sabotless. Almost everyone agreed that this was good progress and slowly, some of the 50 guys began converting to .45. There was, at that time, many who voiced their opinions that there should be a board for the .45 guys. We chose to keep one board and asked that threads be labeled with the caliber of discussion.
There has since been another evolution here where 50's are just not of interest to many of the members and the new pioneers taking smokeless up the ladder. There are more barrel makers, more platforms, and more people offering custom builds than ever before. Now, the main entry gun is almost 100% non-savage. People are re-forming bullets in special dies/presses to conform to their own barrel. Bullets available today were dreamed of and wished for by the previous "generation".
I do not see the need for a new forum as much as I see a need for the entire membership to accept progress. Obviously, everyone needs to carry on the tradition of courtesy, respect and appreciation for all members. This board has almost always been able to run itself because of the great nature of the membership we have. Good, great guys. There is help offered here all the time and rarely do people make fun of a "dumb" question.
One thing I would ask of the other mods and admins is this. Please chime in and reiterate the importance of sharing load information. We've loosened up here a little and I think it would be wise to make sure that we keep safety in the forefront. At one time there was a huge push to make sure that any new loading data was "validated" by pressure traces and one member actually spent the money and did it because he was getting a lot of flak from us for "going where no one had been before" with nothing but a chrony reading and a target. With the new guys basically starting out with custom guns and unpublished data, we ALL owe it to the members to be very careful in posting load data, especially when that data is in the upper ranges.
Other than that, I do not see the evolution process stopping. The guys that want to stay with set-ups that are off-the-shelf can still come here and get what they need. The archives are huge and data is stored from the past that can be searched.
Be safe
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Post by rob67 on Aug 31, 2014 9:33:56 GMT -5
Good replys guys. Sorry for a knee jerk reaction.
It would be impossible to split the board up. I don't want to see sensorship of the loads people are using, maybe these guys that are using something that may be dangerous in another barrel let the reader know. A lot of different builds out here and a lot of different loads.
I am glad that people ask before shooting a new ml or a new load. There are plenty of people here to help. Just worried about someone that don't ask.
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Post by edge on Aug 31, 2014 9:47:59 GMT -5
People on both ends of load development need to ask when supplying info. People asking need to supply all pertinent info on their build so that they get info that pertains to them. We do not allow load info for BP muzzleloaders to be discussed in the open. If you read that someone shooting a CF action with an 1 1/4 inch breech and posts a load and your rifle is only 1 inch then ask if it is safe. On the other side caliber and platform should be given when posting loads. We do have a sticky: dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/4039/regarding-40-45-cal-postingfor load posting and we all need to be more diligent. edge. |
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Post by superkirby on Aug 31, 2014 11:20:52 GMT -5
Not having any experience running a forum, I don't know if this is possible, but is there any way that rather than creating a new forum maybe create some sort line under the topic of every shooting related post that lists what guns and loads are? At least then it's right there that it's a hot load in a bolt gun.
Or maybe just a disclaimer that all new members have to acknowledge reading (think "terms and conditions") that explains the differences in bolt guns vs. break actions, hot powder charges, etc.
I guess what I mean is I personally don't think a separate board would be beneficial. Rather it would split the board more when what is really needed is a sense of unity. But I do think there needs to be something that has to be acknoledged as read for the new people.
Just a thought.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 12:10:05 GMT -5
when new members come here its pretty much known that they are in "another world" as muzzle loaders go, that's what draw people here to begin with. Yes I think the mods need to stress the facts of platform, caliber etc when posting info on a given load or gun.
Its OUR responsibility to do so but we all need to be reminded from time to time. its easy to get carried away in a conversation in a thread and lose track of the fact that many are completely lost to what we are saying and things get lost in translation.
there are a lot of visitors to this site, another reason to keep our cool and be polite to any and all questions ask, the only dumb question is the one not ask, Right?
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Post by cuda on Aug 31, 2014 12:49:43 GMT -5
If really hot loads are disclosed we may need to use pm's of actual amounts of what powders used for member. Or we may need to say safe only in this caliber bolt guns and this barrel when the amount is mentioned. Just to help keep it safe for everyone. I have learned a lot here and have a Stevens 45 McGowen that I shoot sabotless and my Savage 10ML-ll 50 now and maybe more latter. And we might need to watch the use of the 40 bushing with what guns they are safe in only. But all in all we need to keep the good info flowing here.
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Post by rangeball on Aug 31, 2014 12:55:34 GMT -5
Do we have a feel for a recommended upper psi limit for a break action conversion? For the conversion barrels what psi is allowed with the modern 45/70 cartridge they're originally designed for?
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Post by jims on Aug 31, 2014 14:13:25 GMT -5
Didn't Rick Bibby have a "rockets fuel" section once that was for the more exotic and new smokeless ideas like posed here? Would that meet what was suggested?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 20:57:45 GMT -5
This board has lost a lot of .50 cal. users as so little pertains anymore. A lot of the old info is a joke to find if it is still even here. I quit and rejoined just to get the info back I lost in a computer crash and it wasn't worth the hassle. I would strongly urge any new .50 shooter to pm most any of the mods. to verify what you read is actually fit for a .50(Most of the mods. shot and know .50s like the back of their hand) Good Luck, Rocky
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Post by rick59 on Sept 2, 2014 11:58:02 GMT -5
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Post by 10ga on Sept 2, 2014 16:40:06 GMT -5
For more than a little while I've seen/felt the need to have a way to separate the various interest in SML that are ongoing here. To me it's really pretty easy to see the separation issues.
Have 3 basic boards like
1. Savage factory and Savage hybrids.
2. Conversions/hinge pin and break action guns.
3. Other based SML like rempacs and CF based SMLs.
Then have a board devoted to "maintenance" issues or let those just come under discussion in the appropriate board.
I really don't think that it is permissible to talk about a problem without having at least an idea of addressing the solution. I really don't think this thread presents a huge problem but presently the discussions are quite a load for a newbie that visits the board to try to find out why his MLII won't shoot worth heck or how to get a stuck vent or breech plug out. Anyone interested in a custom or that has a custom SML can certainly know which board he needs to visit. JMHO. 10 ga
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Sept 2, 2014 17:07:52 GMT -5
A few years back when the .45 started gaining popularity some wanted the boards separated. And it wasn't allowed then. I for one don't think it should be now either. Before you know it the hot rods as so called of today will be the slow pokes of tomorrow.....where will you want to go then....maybe shooting and rocket fuels?..... We do need to be careful what we post for loads so as to clarify what caliber we are shooting and what kind of action ...we are shooting from. That's just called responsibility There will always be a better mousetrap....but those old style ones still work just fine .....
Drop
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Post by rambler on Sept 2, 2014 17:09:50 GMT -5
A few years back when the .45 started gaining popularity some wanted the boards separated. And it wasn't allowed then. I for one don't think it should be now either. Before you know it the hot rods as so called of today will be the slow pokes of tomorrow.....where will you want to go then....maybe shooting and rocket fuels?..... We do need to be careful what we post for loads so as to clarify what caliber we are shooting and what kind of action ...we are shooting from. That's just called responsibility There will always be a better mousetrap....but those old style ones still work just fine ..... Drop +1 |
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Post by Richard on Sept 3, 2014 19:58:41 GMT -5
I have been trying diligently to remember to put on my rifle description prior to posting loads. Sometimes I might forget since most everyone knows I shoot a .45 Rem/PN. But as mentioned, you never know when a new shooter comes on board.
Richard
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